Weak fade

[Tab373]

Quick history i tend to lay the club off at the top actually use my hands too much in take away seem to roll wrists on take away and get stuck behind on down swing but can save this with quick hands and have suffered with the shanks if my timing is off. But been trying to take the club straight back rather than roll wrists this was working fine shot best round 2 weeks ago gross 74 on ss71 but now every shot has turned in to a weak fade. Ball starts straight and seems to be on that line for a while til it drift off to the right and its a really weak shot.played Friday and every drive was the same as was my irons

 

[Oddsocks]

Watching with interest here!

 

[bobmac]

Do you think the rolling wrists may have sneaked back a little wthout you noticing ?
Old habits often do this

 

[Tab373]

Oh yes been doing it for years but never had a weak fade shot/pushbefore especially with every club/shot. Someone said I should kick my right knee in maybe to start swing or take my stance like that with it kicked in already. But haven't tried that yet as told that on the 18th. Will get on the range tomorrow

 

[the_coach]

Quick history i tend to lay the club off at the top actually use my hands too much in take away seem to roll wrists on take away and get stuck behind on down swing but can save this with quick hands and have suffered with the shanks if my timing is off. But been trying to take the club straight back rather than roll wrists this was working fine shot best round 2 weeks ago gross 74 on ss71 but now every shot has turned in to a weak fade. Ball starts straight and seems to be on that line for a while til it drift off to the right and its a really weak shot.played Friday and every drive was the same as was my irons

there should definitely no rolling/twisting the hands/wrists/arms during the take back for sure - so would say you are right to try to change this.

{ideally the slight angle that there should be between back of left hand & left forearm should remain intact (along with the arm triangle) until the hands pass the right high where the continuing turn/body pivot plus the right arm folding will set the left hand wrist 'upwards' on the snuff-box joint at the base of the thumb - meaning really the left thumb will noticeably set upwards to point at the sky, as this happens the right hand slightly folds backwards.}

if folks haven't been used to the club head traveling more straight back from the ball - because of the 'roll' &/or whip of the arms/club a ways 'inside'.

it's then a deal easy while focusing on a more straight away path back from the ball to do this by allowing the arms to travel outwards away from the body so real early on in the takeback the hands/arms/club have become disconnected from the body pivot.
this 'disconnection' with the arms traveling more 'up & away' because of our anatomy then makes a complete & proper body- chest/shoulder turn pretty impossible to achieve because of the angle this motion puts on the spine.
so there tends to be a lot more of a tilt of the chest/shoulders to the top, not a turn.

so coming back down there isn't the stored body turn for club head speed, the arms working a lot more on their own. often too a little on the steep side which then often times means the handle gets pulled upwards so changing the vertical swing plane of the shaft coming into impact (shaft angle into impact much more upright than it was at address, hands coming back a lot higher no real natural release possible), heel up a touch so the face angle also a little ways open.
giving you a weak flight tailing off to the right a ways.

couple of things you could have a look at. a drill first without a ball.

with a short iron 8 or 7 (just easier to control at first) push a tee right into the ground (so the club can pass over it)

then some 10" or so in a direct straight line from the imagined target place a small coin. (definitely worth sticking with trying to stop the 'roll' or any immediate hand action at take back)
have another glove, fold it in half & place it under the top of your left arm & your chest against the triceps & chest wall (not right under the top of your armpit)

then from address position use the shoulders arm triangle - with still hands/wrists - to move the club back over the coin with your chest/shoulder movement, not independent arms/hands/wrist movement.

so you have to keep the upper left arm in contact with the chest so the glove doesn't fall. so just far enough back to the club shaft horizontal to the ground & parallel to your toe line (can put a stick down of the right toes parallel to target line to check)
stop at shaft horizontal, then look at the clubhead (don't make the move looking at the clubhead from the start) the leading edge should either be at 90º to the ground, so toe up {or okay for the leading edge to be parallel to your spine angle (providing you've kept posture) or somewhere in-between those two positions}

then just let the weight in the left foot trigger the hip turn to swing the club back over the tee through impact just easy to swing through to shaft horizontal in the through swing, but the shaft this time would be above a stick placed off the middle of the left foot (not off the toes) that's also parallel to the target line.

after doing this a bunch of times to get used to both the left arm & chest staying in contact, also that the hips have to turn left & the club head exits a little ways left straighways after impact.

just put a ball on the tee & do the same, but take the club back to hands shoulder height (3/4's) then swing through to a full finish but you have to have the left hip turn left & clear, also feel the clubhead echoes that & exits left - know you might well think that will make the ball go further to the right, but if it's all down as it should be it won't. just swing at 50% or so to get used to the timing & different swing direction to & through impact. should get away from the weak flight to the right.

just have to take it back straighter but connected, then make sure the swing transition starts from the ground up, but coming down the hip has to clear left & you have to feel the shaft returns more on the address plane (when viewed from DTL) & feel the shaft & club head exits left through impact - not by manipulation of the hands or arms - just the hip clearance & body turn.