using a mobile phone app in a comp

patricks148 said:
i think you have to just stop being bitter about DMD's and get yourself one, you never know it might stop you holding up your home course on a Sunday, while you pace out distance;)
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I'm not bitter about them - in fact playing a new course on Saturday I rather wished that I had one as I was far too often baffled by the yardage I had left to pay - and was very frustrated when I played what I thought the perfect shot - to find myself way out. And so I may indeed get one.

You may have forgotten that I have changed my previous total opposition to them to a more tempered view that club competitions would be better and more equitable were they banned from club comps - we all know our own course - let's see who knows and can play it best in any conditions.
 
palindromicbob said:
IF it was any of the major flagship models then chance are the phone did not conform. iPhone 6 broke the general rules that iPhones were fine by introducing a barometer. App are another mine field all together. Anyway here is a previous thread on the subject with a link to the list. Need to get updating it mind you.

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?65078-Mobile-phone-legal-or-not&referrerid=10626
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well there you go - Apple messing it up for golfers and also illustrating why it's a model by model situation!
 
Whilst I am beginning to have a bit of appreciation of the attractions and benefits of golf DMDs I am quite clear however that it is crucial that the R&A keep on top of this issue; and that they do not just open things up with no restrictions because it is 'too difficult' to police. For that way I fear lie many innovations that would take away much from the decision making that we have to do and that is core to the game.
 
TBH, not knowing which conforms and which doesn't if very confusing. I would say just let people use them, after all is knowing the exact temp or wind speed really going to help some guy who can't hit the ball when its flat calm...

Elite, fair enough, but i don't think anyone is so skilled as to be able to make use of the extra functions available on these phones, unless they start hitting the ball for you that is.
 
la_lucha said:
I think the best way to find out is ask your club. I just asked mine and got the ok to use my IPhone.
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One of my clubs barely knows how to use email. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't know the pitfalls lurking within the multitude of devices available on the market. And I get a similar impression from the way the current R&A flowchart tries to address the issue.

I think the current situation is daft because even without direct measurement facilities it's possible to use any smartphone to get a pretty accurate measurement of various "forbidden" environmental conditions. E.g, what about seeking advice via any one of many electronics communications with a friend? What if a notification pops up on screen telling you the air pressure and wind pressure? It could be seen unintentionally like any such alert. There are so many ways a person can intentionally or unintentionally break the rules that I think something has to change. It's too much of a grey area as it stands now.
 
Jimaroid said:
One of my clubs barely knows how to use email. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't know the pitfalls lurking within the multitude of devices available on the market. And I get a similar impression from the way the current R&A flowchart tries to address the issue.

I think the current situation is daft because even without direct measurement facilities it's possible to use any smartphone to get a pretty accurate measurement of various "forbidden" environmental conditions. E.g, what about seeking advice via any one of many electronics communications with a friend? What if a notification pops up on screen telling you the air pressure and wind pressure? It could be seen unintentionally like any such alert. There are so many ways a person can intentionally or unintentionally break the rules that I think something has to change. It's too much of a grey area as it stands now.
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Seems that the grey area is more on whether or how such additional information could be of use rather than whether any specific device is legal or not. And that is rather besides the point in respect of legality of devices. And observations about getting notifications? I think with most smartphones you can switch off notifications from whatever sources the phone supports.

Seems to me that some folk simply want to find excuses for avoiding finding out whether their device is legal or not. Once you know - you know - it's not something you have to do every day.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Seems that the grey area is more on whether or how such additional information could be of use rather than whether any specific device is legal or not. And that is rather besides the point in respect of legality of devices. And observations about getting notifications? I think with most smartphones you can switch off notifications from whatever sources the phone supports.

Seems to me that some folk simply want to find excuses for avoiding finding out whether their device is legal or not. Once you know - you know - it's not something you have to do every day.
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Surely there really is only one place to ask....the club. It's their comp and their rules, so they should have the final say.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And observations about getting notifications? I think with most smartphones you can switch off notifications from whatever sources the phone supports.
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There's no polite way to put this but many people with smartphones are incapable of knowing what can or can't be turned on and off. I see some people with iPhones who can barely make a phone call without problems. So I don't trust their ability to use them within the bounds of many overlapping rules and decisions.
 
Jimaroid said:
There's no polite way to put this but many people with smartphones are incapable of knowing what can or can't be turned on and off. I see some people with iPhones who can barely make a phone call without problems. So I don't trust their ability to use them within the bounds of many overlapping rules and decisions.
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there aren't any -

Q can I use a barometer, anemometer or thermometer during a stipulated round of golf?
A No

nothing complicated, overlapping or whatever

whether it makes any difference to a player isn't an issue for the rules

completely separately you have rules relating to the use of DMDs - buy and use a legal one when the local rules permit it's use and you are fine - nothing complicated.

the one area of potential confusion is when people wish to use a multi-function device rather than a designated legal DMD. The rules do their best not to prohibit this, and provide guidance to any individual wishing to go this route. At the end of the day it's entirely up to the player to ensure he remains within the rules.

given that the vast majority are totally incapable of complying with the most basic rules (I'll take rules 20 and 26 as easy targets) I still struggle to understand why people get so hung up on any issues people may, or may not, have with DMDs. You might as well not be trusting people to clean the groves of their irons without altering the profiles etc etc
 
Q can I use a barometer, anemometer or thermometer during a stipulated round of golf?
A No
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I think this is confusing because:

14-3/18:

Q. During a stipulated round, may a player access local weather information (e.g. wind, temperature, humidity) through an application or internet browser on a multi-functional device?

A. Yes. The prohibition in Rule 14-3 is only applicable to the specific act of gauging or measuring conditions that might affect a player's play (e.g. through use of an anemometer or a thermometer). When accessing weather reports provided by a weather station through an application or internet browser, the player is not actively measuring or gauging the conditions. (New)
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Given that realtime weather information could be available through your phone without the process of actually measuring it the end result is the same. Yet one method is permitted, the other isn't. It's daft.
 
Jimaroid said:
I think this is confusing because:



Given that realtime weather information could be available through your phone without the process of actually measuring it the end result is the same. Yet one method is permitted, the other isn't. It's daft.
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the complete opposite of daft to me - absolute clarity.

can I measure it? No

if I become aware of it through published media am I breaching the rules? No

simples

there is also, of course, the safety aspect of the weather in many parts of the world that makes it important not to restrict access to accurate forecasting.

what the rule makers are really concerned about is the combination of specific conditional data with electronics to deliver 'the answer'; many see this as simply an electronic caddie (what's the difference between a caddy who's able to tell you from records/memory that the shot you face is 150 yds but....uphill, winds about 18mph from the right and hurting slightly, temperatures dropped a touch so let's call it (1)57 aiming 5yds right and here's your 8 iron.

but that's another thing :)
 
Jimaroid said:
One of my clubs barely knows how to use email. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't know the pitfalls lurking within the multitude of devices available on the market. And I get a similar impression from the way the current R&A flowchart tries to address the issue.

I think the current situation is daft because even without direct measurement facilities it's possible to use any smartphone to get a pretty accurate measurement of various "forbidden" environmental conditions. E.g, what about seeking advice via any one of many electronics communications with a friend? What if a notification pops up on screen telling you the air pressure and wind pressure? It could be seen unintentionally like any such alert. There are so many ways a person can intentionally or unintentionally break the rules that I think something has to change. It's too much of a grey area as it stands now.
Click to expand...


Q: What about seeking advice via any one of many electronics communications with a friend?
A: Always has been illegal under 8-1b and further clarified under Decision 14-3/16.

Q: What if a notification pops up on screen telling you the air pressure and wind pressure?
A: You are talking about it popping up without direct measurement facilities so it has come via the internet so is actually fine. 14/3-18.

I do agree they need to clarify. Simplest option is to ban outright multifunction devices and limit DMD's to devices that are spefically designed for that use and are conforming. The other option would be to apply the rules soley to DMD apps and ignore the other abilities of the device.
 
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duncan mackie said:
the complete opposite of daft to me - absolute clarity.

can I measure it? No

if I become aware of it through published media am I breaching the rules? No

simples

there is also, of course, the safety aspect of the weather in many parts of the world that makes it important not to restrict access to accurate forecasting.

what the rule makers are really concerned about is the combination of specific conditional data with electronics to deliver 'the answer'; many see this as simply an electronic caddie (what's the difference between a caddy who's able to tell you from records/memory that the shot you face is 150 yds but....uphill, winds about 18mph from the right and hurting slightly, temperatures dropped a touch so let's call it (1)57 aiming 5yds right and here's your 8 iron.

but that's another thing :)
Click to expand...

+1 here!
 
duncan mackie said:
...what the rule makers are really concerned about is the combination of specific conditional data with electronics to deliver 'the answer'; many see this as simply an electronic caddie (what's the difference between a caddy who's able to tell you from records/memory that the shot you face is 150 yds but....uphill, winds about 18mph from the right and hurting slightly, temperatures dropped a touch so let's call it (1)57 aiming 5yds right and here's your 8 iron.

but that's another thing :)
Click to expand...

Indeed - then combine the above with personal swing/shot/conditions data and outcomes that you have gathered over many practice sessions and rounds of golf (on the course you are playing and on others) that you have saved and can download from the cloud. Integrate that with local conditions data and data collected on how you are playing on the day during the current round...
 
duncan mackie said:
but that's another thing :)
Click to expand...

Well... maybe not, I'm being a bit of a futurist here but have you used Cortana, Siri, Google Play or such like available on many phones? These cloud-based "AI" systems are very close to being an electronic caddie and I'd be amazed if there isn't someone somewhere already considering how to apply such technology to golf. I'm reasonably sure we're not far away from overhearing the phrase "Siri, what club should I hit?" on the golf course.
 
Jimaroid said:
Well... maybe not, I'm being a bit of a futurist here but have you used Cortana, Siri, Google Play or such like available on many phones? These cloud-based "AI" systems are very close to being an electronic caddie and I'd be amazed if there isn't someone somewhere already considering how to apply such technology to golf. I'm reasonably sure we're not far away from overhearing the phrase "Siri, what club should I hit?" on the golf course.
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that's why I said "what the rule makers are really concerned about...." in that post

the technology has already been applied to golf - there is already a lot of non conforming hardware and software; much of which is used ahead of competitive rounds for mapping. Some to support TV comentary. Other apps will provide club selection already, based on previous recorded history. As long as it's not available for use within a competitive round the development cycle for individual consumption won't be fueled by $$$.

but it's already happening
 
duncan mackie said:
that's why I said "what the rule makers are really concerned about...." in that post

the technology has already been applied to golf - there is already a lot of non conforming hardware and software; much of which is used ahead of competitive rounds for mapping. Some to support TV comentary. Other apps will provide club selection already, based on previous recorded history. As long as it's not available for use within a competitive round the development cycle for individual consumption won't be fueled by $$$.

but it's already happening
Click to expand...

Absolutely - so why authorities must keep tight grip on use of technology and not listen to pleading that thnigs are too confusing - they just aren't
 
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