UKIP

[Adi2Dassler]

From your own quotes it is clear that the only person contributing to this debate without having first researched his arguments is yourself.

As for membership of EFTA you had better have a word with wee Alex since he has firmly nailed SNP's colours to the EU masthead.

Standard Life is a plc quoted on the London Stock Exchang and Scottish Widows is a wholly owned subsidiary of an English bank as is Scottish Mutual, Scottish Equitable is now, I believe, French owned having been in Dutch hands for quite some time.and so on.

Fisheries decimated in recent years, textiles in Scotland now largely only for niche markets and this is reflected in the numbers now employed.

Please don't accuse others of a level of ignorance equal to your own!

Alex Salmond can think whatever he wants, he's not defacto lord of Scotland....I take it you investigated your shetland claim, total nonsense,eh?

As I said, I'm not up to date on both of those companies, I do know they contribute healthily to Edinburgh.

Fisheries are decimated because of european quotas, look across the North sea to see how fishing can be a healthy vital part of an economy.

Scotland are + contributer to the UK, we'd be perfectly capable of running our own country, we'd be better off than we currently are, we contribute more than we get.

As for textiles, it might be niche, but has the capacity to expand.

 

[evahakool]

It's probably best to come to a debate armed with actual facts instead of spurious crap you are just repeating.

If the Shetland want independence, let them have it...they'll end up with no oil (or very little)

the actual ownership of investment houses I'm not clued up on, but I do know standard life and scottish widows employ and contribute quite well to Edinburgh.And if you read what I had typed, I reckon EFTA is where Scotland is heading.,Google it.

Fishing and Whisky will be doing just fine.

Why would Shetland end up with no oil?If Scotland want independence and make a claim for oil revenue then by the same token If Shetland gained independence from Scotland they would also have the same claim.

Shetland have never made pleas for independence from Scotland,we would also never vote for a independent Scotland.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Why would Shetland end up with no oil?If Scotland want independence and make a claim for oil revenue then by the same token If Shetland gained independence from Scotland they would also have the same claim.

Shetland have never made pleas for independence from Scotland,we would also never vote for a independent Scotland.

A copy and paste job would explain it better than I could....

If Scotland becomes independent Westminster won't be able to hang on to Shetland, Orkney, Rockall or any other part of Scotland (see: Shetland and Orkney).

However, even under the hypothetical circumstance that this occurred, Westminster wouldn't be able to retain control of the oil fields anyway, so ya boo sux. These matters are regulated by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, to which the UK is a signatory. International law specifies that a state controls the continental shelf and associated mineral and fishing rights up to 200 nautical miles (230 miles or 370 km) off its shores. When another state possesses an island within the continental shelf of this state, special rules apply.

The continental shelf off the Atlantic coast is Scotland's to exploit and develop, even if Westminster clung on to Rockall like a plook on the face of an adolescent sociopath. According to the Law of the Sea: "rocks which could not sustain human habitation or economic life of their own would have no economic zone or continental shelf." Westminster could pauchle its way to keeping Rockall, but as far as oil and fishing exploitation rights are concerned, they'd be entitled to rockall.

Neither would Westminster gain much by holding onto Shetland and Orkney. When an island belonging to one state sits on the continental shelf of another state, the islands are treated as enclaves. This matter was discussed in detail in a legal paper published by the European Journal of International Law: Prospective Anglo-Scottish Maritime Boundary Revisited

Most of the rights to the continental shelf would remain Scottish, Map 2 on page 29 of the legal paper shows the most likely sea boundaries. Westminster would be entitled only to a small zone around the islands, and the waters between Orkney and Shetland. This area contains no oil fields. If Shetland and Orkney were to remain under Westminster's control, Shetland would no longer have an oil fund. .

Westminster's Shetland threat is a bluff. Westminster knows it's a bluff. They just don't want us to know too.

 

[MetalMickie]

Alex Salmond can think whatever he wants, he's not defacto lord of Scotland....I take it you investigated your shetland claim, total nonsense,eh?

As I said, I'm not up to date on both of those companies, I do know they contribute healthily to Edinburgh.

Fisheries are decimated because of european quotas, look across the North sea to see how fishing can be a healthy vital part of an economy.

Scotland are + contributer to the UK, we'd be perfectly capable of running our own country, we'd be better off than we currently are, we contribute more than we get.

As for textiles, it might be niche, but has the capacity to expand.

Mr Salmond could be King of Scotland from what I can see as, after independence, it i hard to see an exclusively Scottish political party capable of challenging him and his party as Labour, Lib/Dems and, for what they are worth in Scotland, the Tories would all become essentially Westminster only organisations.

You seem to display a certain level of antipathy towards Mr Salmond, in which case be careful what you wish for.

As for Scotland being a net contributor to the UK economy it very much depends what basis you use for the calculation. Certainly the majority of surveys suggest the reverse is the case.

Finally on the financial services companies, the sector in which I was employed for over 40 years, I can say that the companies who currently have their bases in Edinburgh have indicated that if there was a YES vote they would have to review their positions.

 

[evahakool]

A copy and paste job would explain it better than I could....

I would like to know where you copied and pasted that from,the statement that the uk have control of its waters up to 200 miles is totally false.

 

[SocketRocket]

As for Scotland being a net contributor to the UK economy it very much depends what basis you use for the calculation. Certainly the majority of surveys suggest the reverse is the case.

He is basing it on North Sea revenues which is ludicrous. The Scots per capita receive from the state coffers around £3,000 more than the rest of the UK, we have been subsidising their extra benefits for a long time now.

Personally I would prefer Scotland to remain part of the UK and will be glad when the matter is sorted. If they want to leave then so be it but I think much of what I read from Scots is a rose tinted picture using North Sea Oil incomes as a one trick pony. The issue that makes be sick is the one about turfing Nuclear Subs out of their country, these people know they would still have the benefit of the defence umbrella without paying for it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The issue that makes be sick is the one about turfing Nuclear Subs out of their country, these people know they would still have the benefit of the defence umbrella without paying for it.

A friend once told me to beware of people who say 'these people'.

For Info
If Scotland kick out the nuclear subs we will be joining all of the other European countries apart from our old allies France.

 

[stevie_r]

A friend once told me to beware of people who say 'these people'.

For Info
If Scotland kick out the nuclear subs we will be joining all of the other European countries apart from our old allies France.

Salmond wishes to remain a part of NATO (ooops look! a 180 turn around) and therefore live under the protective umbrella of a military alliance with a nuclear deterrent. Do you not think that to want that, but not want any of those weapons on Scottish soil, smacks just a teeny little bit of hypocrisy?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Salmond wishes to remain a part of NATO (ooops look! a 180 turn around) and therefore live under the protective umbrella of a military alliance with a nuclear deterrent. Do you not think that to want that, but not want any of those weapons on Scottish soil, smacks just a teeny little bit of hypocrisy?

Of course, but countries such as Denmark and The Netherlands enjoy the same protection.
Turn it around, do you think that it would be right for Scotland and France to be the only host countries for nuclear subs.

 

[stevie_r]

Of course, but countries such as Denmark and The Netherlands enjoy the same protection.
Turn it around, do you think that it would be right for Scotland and France to be the only host countries for nuclear subs.

France hosts nuclear subs, it has its own nuclear deterrent. Faslane does so because the place is ideal for purpose. Would Scotland need or maintain Faslane as a naval base without the subs? I doubt it.

The constant whining from the SNP about the lack of military units being based in Scotland is tedious. Why on earth would Westminster go to the expense and bother of rehoming units here when they could potentially have to rehome them again after next September.

 

[SocketRocket]

A friend once told me to beware of people who say 'these people'.

For Info
If Scotland kick out the nuclear subs we will be joining all of the other European countries apart from our old allies France.

I am cautious of these people that tell others down the pub to be aware of people that say 'these people'

You mean you will be joining the other countries that rely on Britain and France to allow them to sleep safely at night. Do you feel safe with Iran and North Korea in the club, but then again the UK would protect you, could you trust France.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I am cautious of these people that tell others down the pub to be aware of people that say 'these people'

You mean you will be joining the other countries that rely on Britain and France to allow them to sleep safely at night. Do you feel safe with Iran and North Korea in the club, but then again the UK would protect you, could you trust France.

When either N korea or Iran has the capacity to deliver a nuclear payload any further than round the corner I'll be concerned, when they have the technology to shrink bombs,develop missiles and targeting capability, I'll worry.

Nuclear weapons are ridiculous now, a remnant from an age long gone.The UK govt are terrified of losing their permanent place on the security council,but they might have to find an alternative base come October next year,as Scotland has no desire to house them.Move them or lose them.

 

[SocketRocket]

I know this is a little off topic but it has been introduced into the debate as an issue that an Independent Scotland would need to address.

There have been a few posts on here that have pointed out Child Poverty is an issue that needs prioritising for any Government in these Isles. Child Poverty is defined as a family earning 60% of average wage or less. Average wage seems to be £26,500 so the break for child poverty would be around £16000. Can this really be called poverty or is relative poverty? Most families on the planet would feel very wealthy on this income.