UKIP

[MetalMickie]

Right wing, populists somewhere between the Tory right and the BNP, its the “I’m not racist, but” party.


I’ve heard the phrase you can’t re-invent the wheel, pulling out of Europe would be trying to un-invent it. It’s a fact and with us to stay. Of course it needs reform, in particular CAP, but the real reason the right wing flag waving jingoists hate the EU, is because of the social reforms it has given workers.

Well I hate the EU & the bloated self-serving bureaucracy that it has become but I am neither right wing nor jingoistic. The social reforms that it has given workers are actually very limited and could have been achieved without interference from an unelected bunch of gravy train riders.

Why do the pro Europeans always try to paint Eurosceptics as right wingers when most of Labour's natural support are, themselves anti Brussels.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

If/when it happens, Scotland will become the next Cyprus just without the sun. They'll REALLY have something to moan about then.

Good one.

I've produced facts and figures on here before about all this.Safe to say A) no one has been able to say they were wrong, which leads to B) you're talking bollocks with clearly no factual evidence to back up this claim.

Scotland would be in surplus, we'd be rid of the tory party for ever,we'd not hang onto the coat tails of America when it comes to illegal wars, we'd have nuclear weapons removed from our country and we'd be able to address the shameful health issues that blight our country with the gigantic savings we'd make from removing ourselves from the 'union'.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Scotland would be in surplus.

Not a loaded question in any way, just always been curious; what industry's are thriving in Scotland? Obviously there's a lot of stuff going on around the coasts in terms of fishing/mining etc but is there an economy to support all the citizens? Only ever been to Edinburgh but certainly didn't seem as business-y as London, or even some of the other larger English cities. And if the two were to be split, would all of the businesses with HQ's in London and offices in Scotland keep them there?

Like I said, not a loaded question, and have no strong views either way, just always wondered where the majority of Scotland's GDP comes from.

Apologies if this is ridiculously off-topic.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Scotland would be in surplus, we'd be rid of the tory party for ever,we'd not hang onto the coat tails of America when it comes to illegal wars, we'd have nuclear weapons removed from our country and we'd be able to address the shameful health issues that blight our country with the gigantic savings we'd make from removing ourselves from the 'union'.

But I thought the SNP want Scotland in the European Union, therefore you'll have even less of a voice as you'll have the same 'power' and voting weights as the likes of Malta and Cyprus!

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Not a loaded question in any way, just always been curious; what industry's are thriving in Scotland? Obviously there's a lot of stuff going on around the coasts in terms of fishing/mining etc but is there an economy to support all the citizens? Only ever been to Edinburgh but certainly didn't seem as business-y as London, or even some of the other larger English cities. And if the two were to be split, would all of the businesses with HQ's in London and offices in Scotland keep them there?

Like I said, not a loaded question, and have no strong views either way, just always wondered where the majority of Scotland's GDP comes from.

Apologies if this is ridiculously off-topic.

Oil & Gas
Renewable energy
Tourism
banking ( don't laugh)
Investment houses,insurance houses
textiles
whisky
electronics
manufacturing
fishing
agriculture


off the top of my head.Reasonably diverse and suitably sized for a population of 5 million odd

also remember that the state is a large employer in Scotland, with the nhs,emergency services, the newly created civil service etc.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

But I thought the SNP want Scotland in the European Union, therefore you'll have even less of a voice as you'll have the same 'power' and voting weights as the likes of Malta and Cyprus!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but The SNP won't make the rules in an independent Scotland...a new constitution will be created by cross party agreement.

I reckon EFTA will be the preferred overall option, maybe with schengen but I doubt it.tied to the £ for a pre-set time to allow creation of own currency.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Turning back to UKIP though, with the problems currently in Europe (which is the main reason they came to prominence in the first place) they are going to gain in popularity in this country, particularly amongst the anti-European brigade. The one way to reduce their influence is for the current government to offer a referendum in the current parliamentary term on the UK's relationship with the EU and offer a straight 'in/out' question - not what Cameron has offered.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Oil & Gas
Renewable energy
Tourism
banking ( don't laugh)
Investment houses,insurance houses
textiles
whisky
electronics
manufacturing
fishing
agriculture


off the top of my head.Reasonably diverse and suitably sized for a population of 5 million odd

also remember that the state is a large employer in Scotland, with the nhs,emergency services, the newly created civil service etc.

Most of which are doing very well at the moment [apart from the banking]

What does England's list look like?

 

[stevie_r]

Most of which are doing very well at the moment [apart from the banking]

What does England's list look like?

I presume you mean England, Wales and Northern Irelands but just put England for the sake of brevity?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but The SNP won't make the rules in an independent Scotland...a new constitution will be created by cross party agreement.

I reckon EFTA will be the preferred overall option, maybe with schengen but I doubt it.tied to the £ for a pre-set time to allow creation of own currency.

Interesting conundrum though - cross party agreement on a constitution could take years, particularly if the other parties represented in the Scottish Parliament take a line dictated by their leadership in other parts of the UK! Personally I think leaving one Union and trying to join the European Union would be madness for an independent Scotland! Interesting times ahead though.

 

[MetalMickie]

Oil & Gas
Renewable energy
Tourism
banking ( don't laugh)
Investment houses,insurance houses
textiles
whisky
electronics
manufacturing
fishing
agriculture


off the top of my head.Reasonably diverse and suitably sized for a population of 5 million odd

also remember that the state is a large employer in Scotland, with the nhs,emergency services, the newly created civil service etc.

So Scotland is still laying claim to the Shetlands' oil & gas and conveniently ignoring the islanders' plea for independence.

As for the other industries listed it is hard to see one on that list that is currently particularly successful. Insurance & investment house are now almost entirely non-Scottish owned, the manufacturing base is gone, fisheries are suffering at the hands of Brussels and whiskey sales are not great.

Still there is always the State but, in the event of independence, you will have to meet that cost yourselves.
Get real your economy is even more damaged than the rest of the UK and independence won't change it

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So Scotland is still laying claim to the Shetlands' oil & gas and conveniently ignoring the islanders' plea for independence.

As for the other industries listed it is hard to see one on that list that is currently particularly successful. Insurance & investment house are now almost entirely non-Scottish owned, the manufacturing base is gone, fisheries are suffering at the hands of Brussels and whiskey sales are not great.

Still there is always the State but, in the event of independence, you will have to meet that cost yourselves.
Get real your economy is even more damaged than the rest of the UK and independence won't change it

No list then?
There is no Whiskey made in Scotland

 

[SocketRocket]

Good one.

I've produced facts and figures on here before about all this.Safe to say A) no one has been able to say they were wrong, which leads to B) you're talking bollocks with clearly no factual evidence to back up this claim.

Scotland would be in surplus, we'd be rid of the tory party for ever,we'd not hang onto the coat tails of America when it comes to illegal wars, we'd have nuclear weapons removed from our country and we'd be able to address the shameful health issues that blight our country with the gigantic savings we'd make from removing ourselves from the 'union'.

This makes me laugh and will probably make the Scots cry when it all descends into a ball of belly button fluff if they dare go alone.

 

[MetalMickie]

No list then?
There is no Whiskey made in Scotland

Not much point as it appears from your promotion of the original Scottish list (which, by the way ironically included renewable energy) you would not recognise what businesses were successful.

Sit & sip your whisky whilst I quaff my English ale.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

So Scotland is still laying claim to the Shetlands' oil & gas and conveniently ignoring the islanders' plea for independence.

As for the other industries listed it is hard to see one on that list that is currently particularly successful. Insurance & investment house are now almost entirely non-Scottish owned, the manufacturing base is gone, fisheries are suffering at the hands of Brussels and whiskey sales are not great.

Still there is always the State but, in the event of independence, you will have to meet that cost yourselves.
Get real your economy is even more damaged than the rest of the UK and independence won't change it

It's probably best to come to a debate armed with actual facts instead of spurious crap you are just repeating.

If the Shetland want independence, let them have it...they'll end up with no oil (or very little)

the actual ownership of investment houses I'm not clued up on, but I do know standard life and scottish widows employ and contribute quite well to Edinburgh.And if you read what I had typed, I reckon EFTA is where Scotland is heading.Google it.

Fishing and Whisky will be doing just fine.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

This makes me laugh and will probably make the Scots cry when it all descends into a ball of belly button fluff if they dare go alone.

How so?Anything substantial to contribute or just random words after words?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The one rational that I don't understand from some posters is if Scotland is such a drag on the UK economy,why are they so desperate to keep us in the union. Would they not be massively better off without us.

Sorry OP for hi-jacking.
I would appreciate an answer as to why UKIP do not field Scottish political candidates for Holyrood and Scottish based Westminster seats though.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

The one rational that I don't understand from some posters is if Scotland is such a drag on the UK economy,why are they so desperate to keep us in the union. Would they not be massively better off without us.

Sorry OP for hi-jacking.
I would appreciate an answer as to why UKIP do not field Scottish political candidates for Holyrood and Scottish based Westminster seats though.

Because traditionally England is centre right with its politics, Scotland is centre left.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Just had a wee squint at their Scottish website.
They have an office in Kirkcaldy and have fielded about 30 candidates in council elections.
Some of the stuff they say makes a bit of sense.
They are for a type of devo-max outside of Europe but inside the UK.

 

[MetalMickie]

It's probably best to come to a debate armed with actual facts instead of spurious crap you are just repeating.

If the Shetland want independence, let them have it...they'll end up with no oil (or very little)

the actual ownership of investment houses I'm not clued up on, but I do know standard life and scottish widows employ and contribute quite well to Edinburgh.And if you read what I had typed, I reckon EFTA is where Scotland is heading.Google it.

Fishing and Whisky will be doing just fine.

From your own quotes it is clear that the only person contributing to this debate without having first researched his arguments is yourself.

As for membership of EFTA you had better have a word with wee Alex since he has firmly nailed SNP's colours to the EU masthead.

Standard Life is a plc quoted on the London Stock Exchang and Scottish Widows is a wholly owned subsidiary of an English bank as is Scottish Mutual, Scottish Equitable is now, I believe, French owned having been in Dutch hands for quite some time.and so on.

Fisheries decimated in recent years, textiles in Scotland now largely only for niche markets and this is reflected in the numbers now employed.

Please don't accuse others of a level of ignorance equal to your own!