Two lessons from different pros experience

stefanovic

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Pure rubbish...
Yet more crap. I have been using the same guy for a number of years. He teaches in a very simple manner, has a very good reputation and portfolio of clients. He knows what I can and can't do in the swing and works with what I have to get the most from it. He may well address some basics like grip and especially posture which can lapse. He will give a couple of thoughts to takeaway and drills to work on. I then invest time hitting balls to make the changes feel natural so I can take them to the course and not stand there thinking about any technical thoughts. I also accept that after a lesson I am likely to have a period where the scores rise before the changes take full effect. Having gone from 14 to 12 this season (and one more shot under handicap away from 11). I am quite comfortable that his methods are working and I making progress. Put simply that'll do for me

With close to 65,000 posts and how many lessons you have got down to 12. You'll never make it. The pro sees you coming.
Instead pick up a book like Golf My Way by Jack Nicklaus. No specific lessons but enough information to last a lifetime.
I used to read GM but what lesson has ever been useful to anyone in there? Or any other mag for that matter.
PS My handicap was lower and I have never been a regular player..
 

Piece

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With close to 65,000 posts and how many lessons you have got down to 12. You'll never make it. The pro sees you coming.
Instead pick up a book like Golf My Way by Jack Nicklaus. No specific lessons but enough information to last a lifetime.
I used to read GM but what lesson has ever been useful to anyone in there? Or any other mag for that matter.
PS My handicap was lower and I have never been a regular player..

This poster advocates no directing coaching in golf, and therefore all sports, replacing that with "pick up a book". You can't nurture talent and ability by reading a book.
 

Sekiro

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How can anyone say that lessons don’t work... our entire life is centred around being taught how to do things, coaching, mentoring, training whatever you want to call it, it’s the foundation in everything we do, so to dismiss it just seems ludicrous to me. Sure different methods will resonate better depending on the individual and we all learn at different tempos in different ways but it’s still an integral part of educating yourself within something.
 

mister v

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I had a chipping lesson a 2 weeks back and then have been up the club practicing almost every night and the difference is as clear as night and day. Its the first time that ive really committed to practicing rather than just going up the range and twatting balls all over the shop. it is definetly the way forward
 

Hendy

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Golf lessons are a con.
One teacher summed it up when he told me that he doesn't bother giving lessons any more because nobody was taking notice.
There is no right and wrong. Get on the course and adjust your swing where necessary. You will probably find you'll beat the guy who has too many swing thoughts after lessons.
Beginners are likely to be more successful with just one swing thought. The tour pro's might have as many as 6.

Kind of agree never one for lessons myself tho I have had a few when something going wrong and I need advice and I can't see how to myself

But in saying that my wee boy is 5 now and if he wants to take it up he will go to a pro from day one.

My reasoning for this is I think a young kid can be molded from the start to a tech book swing where as myself at 38 will only see some improvement if any. (I would just use YouTube etc )

And for the record started golf in 2007 off 25 and currently off 8. Had maybe 5 lessons. Rest just got from practice drills etc on YouTube
 

garyinderry

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Kind of agree never one for lessons myself tho I have had a few when something going wrong and I need advice and I can't see how to myself

But in saying that my wee boy is 5 now and if he wants to take it up he will go to a pro from day one.

My reasoning for this is I think a young kid can be molded from the start to a tech book swing where as myself at 38 will only see some improvement if any. (I would just use YouTube etc )

And for the record started golf in 2007 off 25 and currently off 8. Had maybe 5 lessons. Rest just got from practice drills etc on YouTube



Dont dismiss practice drills from youtube. Its lessons in a different form.
 

YorkshireStu

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Dont dismiss practice drills from youtube. Its lessons in a different form.

I agree, they’ve been great for me and I’ve come on loads by practicing the YouTube tips and analysing what I’m doing. The one downside here from not having lessons is that it can’t be instantly tailored if you’re implementing something wrongly. So progress will be slower as there will be a little trial and error over time to get things going.
 

HomerJSimpson

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With close to 65,000 posts and how many lessons you have got down to 12. You'll never make it. The pro sees you coming.
Instead pick up a book like Golf My Way by Jack Nicklaus. No specific lessons but enough information to last a lifetime.
I used to read GM but what lesson has ever been useful to anyone in there? Or any other mag for that matter.
PS My handicap was lower and I have never been a regular player..

Make it where? Yes I have aspirations and yes I work hard on my game including lessons but that's a personal choice and guess what, I actually enjoy working on my game, trying different things and trying to be get as good as I can. Why would I want to read something dry from a book when I can get hands tuition and more modern teaching methods. The bottom line has always been that I've never been the most natural or talented player and so have to graft to get what I can from my game. I also subscribe to the adage if you don't practice you stand still
 

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Just wanted to add to this thread for what its worth, just had my first ever lesson today and came away with some stuff to practice on and I could certainly see the improvement.

He corrected my grip almost instantly. Easy enough. Then we worked on turning back and follow through.I told him I wanted to reach single figures and he said he thought I was capable of that as I've got the distance and I strike the ball pretty well, just need to work on the swing mechanics and short game. Plenty of practice ahead for me starting tomorrow.

I certainly saw the benefit of this lesson.
 

HomerJSimpson

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Just wanted to add to this thread for what its worth, just had my first ever lesson today and came away with some stuff to practice on and I could certainly see the improvement.

He corrected my grip almost instantly. Easy enough. Then we worked on turning back and follow through.I told him I wanted to reach single figures and he said he thought I was capable of that as I've got the distance and I strike the ball pretty well, just need to work on the swing mechanics and short game. Plenty of practice ahead for me starting tomorrow.

I certainly saw the benefit of this lesson.

Top man. Get working on the drills and especially the short game. I played crap today but without several sand saves and chips and putts the score would have been significantly worse. I love trying different shots, especially from tough lies and seeing what I can and can't get away with
 

PJ87

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I had 1 lesson on driver with my current pro. I went from 170 yard fades to 200-220 yard draws

Last round only 1 drive under 200 (199) and had one 240

60% fairways aswell
 

Backsticks

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Personally I wouldn't be having lessons with multiple pros.

I think what having lessons with multiple pros exposes is how little they know about the golf swing - next to nothing really, and they are just taking a hit a miss approach to trying to cosmetically modify elements of your swing to make it look according to some orthodoxy they believe in - and hope it improves your game. The fundamental flaw in the teaching pro model is that it is based on the premises that because they can do it, one, they understand what they are doing, and two, can show someone else how to do it. But there is no real evidence for either. They just happen to have a talent for the game, did hit it better than they rest, and so end up as pros.
 

HomerJSimpson

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I think what having lessons with multiple pros exposes is how little they know about the golf swing - next to nothing really, and they are just taking a hit a miss approach to trying to cosmetically modify elements of your swing to make it look according to some orthodoxy they believe in - and hope it improves your game. The fundamental flaw in the teaching pro model is that it is based on the premises that because they can do it, one, they understand what they are doing, and two, can show someone else how to do it. But there is no real evidence for either. They just happen to have a talent for the game, did hit it better than they rest, and so end up as pros.

I'm sorry but I disagree with everything in your posts. I've had lessons with several famous coaches (Gary Smith and Paul Foston - one a present and one a competition prize). I think if you look at their coaching resume they are two of the most respected teachers with an encyclopedic knowledge of the swing. I would also argue that even the average club pro or teaching pro at a range has to have a capability to teach the game and get players to improve or they'd simply vote with their feet and go elsewhere. There are a number of forum members on here, myself included that are big fans of lessons and have made forward progress using their teacher. I'd also say many pros get their clientele primarily from word of mouth and personal endorsements
 

stefanovic

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This poster advocates no directing coaching in golf, and therefore all sports, replacing that with "pick up a book". You can't nurture talent and ability by reading a book.
I would regard reading as the greatest of all pleasures.
If this is the case then GM should stop printing lessons as the written instruction is useless. So I'll ask again - what swing lesson have you ever tried and succeeded with over time?
If you read one book then Golf My Way by Nicklaus is probably the best ever because it describes the real basics which are not generally understood by most players. You can then keep these in mind or refer back to the book when you have a problem. One reviewer after another mentions it as brilliant.
Teaching pros may well fix a fault, but this merely leads to another fault sooner or later. This is how they earn a living.
 

Piece

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I would regard reading as the greatest of all pleasures.
If this is the case then GM should stop printing lessons as the written instruction is useless. So I'll ask again - what swing lesson have you ever tried and succeeded with over time?
If you read one book then Golf My Way by Nicklaus is probably the best ever because it describes the real basics which are not generally understood by most players. You can then keep these in mind or refer back to the book when you have a problem. One reviewer after another mentions it as brilliant.
Teaching pros may well fix a fault, but this merely leads to another fault sooner or later. This is how they earn a living.

There are 1,000,000 books on golf, showing us the basics and fixes. It's down to individual opinion on what is the 'right' book for them. My Dad gave me two books to read when I started golf - Ben Hogan and Henry Cotton. It has all the basics you need - great - but I soon realised that you can't put them into real play as you can't realistically improve unless you have someone watching/coaching you to ensure it's done correctly. It's common sense. I'll say it again, as a football coach, you can't fine tune or nurture ability just by reading.

I've had very few lessons, but the ones I've had have definitely improved my game. Especially my putting lesson - I went from having the yips to now being an excellent putter.
 

HomerJSimpson

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I agree with everything else you wrote but not this.
Good coaches, yes, but not the "average" teaching pro, and definitely not the average club pro.
One minute they're just a Cat 1 golfer working in a supermarket, next minute they think they're worth £40 plus per hour, ie £80K per year.

30 years ago, maybe, but not now.

I see it differently. They have to have a broad basis and capability to pass the PGA exam. Once they get an attachment to a club (either as an assistant or their first head pro role) then it is important they build a client base for lessons usually club members. To do that and retain them they need to get some form of reputation as a teacher and make progress with their students. That equally applies to those working at a range. Word of mouth is a powerful tool and so if someone begins to get a good (or bad reputation) it can make a big difference to attracting (or not). They can also only charge what people think the lessons are worth and so if people think the lessons are over priced and aren't getting value for money they'll walk and go elsewhere.
 

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To a certain extent different things work for different people .
For me I have long since realised that golf books or any other kind of book on physical /sport skills are pretty useless as I have no body self awareness and what I think I am doing and what I am actually doing are often very different.
Golf instruction for me is great particularly with video feedback so I can see the point being made.
The only place where I have found golf books useful is for the mental /strategic side of the game.
 
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