Trust: Do slicers exacerbate their problem though fear?

[Alex1975]

Hi all,

My question is as the title suggests about slicers being so worried about ending up right of the target that they push the ball left at impact with an out to in divert as a defense?


I was always a slicer as a beginner and I am wondering if my now stock fade and usual out to in divert is because of a lack of trust? Or is it simply that an out to in divert is still a shot that is coming over the top, full stop? And if so I muse that the over the top move is a defense in its self to mask an open club face that may not be a problem anymore.


I find that if I make a more conscious effort to make a straight divert and keep my arms closer to my body it feels better and I get a straighter ball flight but that my first reaction when I look up to see the ball fly is “oh **** I have released it too right” when often it turns out not to be the case.


I guess it’s a question that can’t be answered as I am asking you about something that may be going on in my/other slicer/faders heads but I would be interested in your thoughts on the matter.
To round up, could it be that as beginners with a slice, that could be as simple as a grip problem at the beginning end up with a very defensive swing, coming over the top and trying hard to turn their writs over and aiming left or any other common slicer/faders swing, because they simply no longer trust them self enough to swing the club down the line?



Thanks for any input, it’s an open question to anyone who wants to think or talk it over.

Al

 

[USER1999]

You think way too much.

 

[Alex1975]

You think way too much.

Yep I know... I am the same with everything, its a well known personal trait. Its not an "OMG the world is falling in, help me with my golf swing before I kill myself" kind of thinking too much though, its more of an obsession "I want to know everything about the game I love" type of thinking too much. I consider that to be more balanced .

 

[Ethan]

By lining up further left they exacerbate the mechanical fault.

 

[chrisd]

I think that it almost always ends up being an over the top swing path. I have fought this since day one and have now largely eradicated it but you really do have to tackle it as early on as possible and be determined


Chris

 

[fundy]

Combination of the 2 for me, certainly aiming too far left can lead to an even more out to in swing and hence increasing the amount of sidespin and hence slice on the shot, i guess ultimately you are talking about the margins between a controllable fade and an uncontrollable slice

 

[Alex1975]

i guess ultimately you are talking about the margins between a controllable fade and an uncontrollable slice

I am ye and I think the margins are pretty small and partly mental. You cant tell me that it is not psychically possible for someone of good health to be able to swing a club down the line so some of it must be the mind protecting them, a slice can be mentally unsettling when you don't know why its happening. Less so when you do I would say.

 

[fundy]

You want to try having a hook as your bad one lol, then youll see a destructive shot that gets away from you

 

[DaveM]

Must admit I use to slice badly. The ball was more like a boomarang. From trying to hit it to hard and ending up sort of slinging the club at it coming over the top. Cured it by stoping at the top of the backswing only for a split second. But it stopped me slinging the club and made me swing down and though the ball. Also it slowed the swing down at the top making me speed up as I came though the ball with better timing. Not saying it will work for everyone, its just what worked for me. Also found my shoulder where open at address which just made thing worse. Now I use the spine angle on a sidewards plane. eg more angle on the driver to more or less upright on the short irons(does that make sence?). Do all my practice swings behind the ball now never in my address stance. found it helped. If I did that so I could walk up to the ball set myself up correctly and swing smoothly back pause at the top(split second more a feeling than visable). Then hopfully sweep the ball away (Well thats the idea anyway). Only swing thought I now use is "smoooooth". As I said works for me but maybe not anyone else?

Oh one more thing I think you need to know how far you hit each club with a smooth swing and just except it. So if you are between clubs dont try to hit the shorter club hard, use the longer club go down the grip and hit it smooth.

 

[Philm]

yes i believe that slicers make the affects of their over the top swing worse by aiming left through fear.

i dont think that they started out with only a grip problem(or even a grip problem) but that they have started with an over the top swing plane and havent understood early enough that aiming left promotes the slice rather than demotes it.

Phil

 

[timchump]

Yep i think so.

It was defintley a faze i went through as a beginer, aiming further right to counter the slice.

Until i eventually had a enough of it after about a year,
i started doing the opposite trying to hit a big in to out swing path and letting the hands come over the top.

 

[G1BB0]

definitely, I aim onto the next golf course 3 miles away and still end up 100yds right of the one I am trying to hit

Lessons and practice are my only cure

 

[sawtooth]

Must admit I use to slice badly. The ball was more like a boomarang. From trying to hit it to hard and ending up sort of slinging the club at it coming over the top. Cured it by stoping at the top of the backswing only for a split second. But it stopped me slinging the club and made me swing down and though the ball. Also it slowed the swing down at the top making me speed up as I came though the ball with better timing. Not saying it will work for everyone, its just what worked for me. Also found my shoulder where open at address which just made thing worse. Now I use the spine angle on a sidewards plane. eg more angle on the driver to more or less upright on the short irons(does that make sence?). Do all my practice swings behind the ball now never in my address stance. found it helped. If I did that so I could walk up to the ball set myself up correctly and swing smoothly back pause at the top(split second more a feeling than visable). Then hopfully sweep the ball away (Well thats the idea anyway). Only swing thought I now use is "smoooooth". As I said works for me but maybe not anyone else?

Oh one more thing I think you need to know how far you hit each club with a smooth swing and just except it. So if you are between clubs dont try to hit the shorter club hard, use the longer club go down the grip and hit it smooth.

Nice post.

I've battled with slicing for the most of my golfing life. I hardly ever do this in friendly matches or on the range, it shows up now and again in comps so my theory is that I get anxious and try to hit the ball too early. When I do this I hit from the top and unwind with my shoulders which causes me to cut across the ball.

Like you say swing smooth, square shoulders at address, go back slow even pause a little at the top then drop the hands down. easy really

 

[backspin22]

Aim right and let your hands win the race.
Practise on the range first.

 

[RGDave]

Thanks for any input, it’s an open question to anyone who wants to think or talk it over.

I'd like to talk it over Dr Alex. Can I lie on the couch?

whoops, supper ready....

YES! is the answer b.t.w.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

I'm struggling very badly again to the point where i'm not even using my driver any more.

 

[Alex1975]

Thanks for any input, it’s an open question to anyone who wants to think or talk it over.

I'd like to talk it over Dr Alex. Can I lie on the couch?

whoops, supper ready....

YES! is the answer b.t.w.

Hehe this made me laugh... Ye I am convinced now from what I have seen the last few weeks that over the top, aiming left and casting are all a mental condition put in place by people who do not understand there golf swing in the form of a defense mechanism.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

defense mechanism.

Maybe... I think that it effects confidence too which makes you tighten up more which makes you slice it more. A horrible, ever tightening circle of destruction.

I am struggling to even get the driver in contact with the ball now.

 

[Alex1975]

defense mechanism.

Maybe... I think that it effects confidence too which makes you tighten up more which makes you slice it more. A horrible, ever tightening circle of destruction.

I am struggling to even get the driver in contact with the ball now.

This may help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln1T2ZPyuuw


Work on getting that wrist cock that he talks about, also bringing your hands back to the position they started at before starting the release with the wrists.

The thing that has been making me fade/slice is that I have been thinking about the position of my club shaft through the swing and not the position of my hands. For me now when the hands are back to 6 oclock on the down swing the shaft is still parallel to the ground with the shaft pointing to 9 oclock, only then do I start to shut the club head with my hands/wrists.

Everything I have just written I have known for a long time but the crux of it for me is that I have always been trying to shut that club head from the top of my swing as I figured it gives me more time(in fact you come over the top in desperation to get the club head shut), in actuality it is MUCH!!! easier and more efficient(and lets face it, only possible) to do it much later.

Watch Luke`s hands here throughout the swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoiiGdiwbwg

From the point he has full wrist hinge till he releases the club head. He does not uncock his wrists at all till his hands are at 5 oclock, i e past the address position. If you pause the clip at impact(36sec) and flick the clip back and forth you can see just how quick and easy the release is once the hands are in the correct place at impact.

Hope it is some help

 

[StrangelyBrown]

No you tube at work but I'll check these out when I get home.

Thanks much!!