Tracker dots on clubface

[D-S]

Using Foresight software and hardware in a golf simulator, 4 small (3 or 4mm) white paper stickers are applied to the club face to track the club face path so it can be displayed and recorded for each shot.
These dots are usually not visible to the player and do not alter the playing characteristics of the club but are they legal in competition and, if they are not, can someone point me towards the relevant rule or clarification?
Thanks.

 

[Imurg]

Don't know about the rule number but, I think, Ben Crane got DQ'd in the States for not removing them...

 

[rulie]

The stickers make the club non-conforming, but may be removed before the player makes a stroke with that club. If not removed before a stroke is made with that club, dq. Rule 4.1a(3).

 

[rulefan]

Don't know about the rule number but, I think, Ben Crane got DQ'd in the States for not removing them...

And Sabatini

USGA clarifies how bizarre rules violation from November could have been avoided

Rory Sabbatini's Rules violation from November caused him to be disqualified. But could it have been easily avoided? Yes.

golf-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[rulefan]

What puzzles me is that 4.1a(3) says

(3) Deliberately Changing Club’s Playing Characteristics During Round.​

• By applying any substance to the clubhead (other than in cleaning it) to affect how it performs in making a stroke.

How do they do that? However it seems that they are considered to be an external attachment to the club but not mentioned specifically.


They are certainly mentioned specifically when it comes to removing them to make the club useable.

• A non-permissible external attachment (such as a sticker on the club face) is removed from the club before the club is used to make a stroke.
  

 

[rulie]

What puzzles me is that 4.1a(3) says

(3) Deliberately Changing Club’s Playing Characteristics During Round.​

• By applying any substance to the clubhead (other than in cleaning it) to affect how it performs in making a stroke.

How do they do that? However it seems that they are considered to be an external attachment to the club but not mentioned specifically.


They are certainly mentioned specifically when it comes to removing them to make the club useable.

• A non-permissible external attachment (such as a sticker on the club face) is removed from the club before the club is used to make a stroke.

Not sure what your point is?
The sticker situation is fully covered.

 

[cliveb]

Not sure what your point is?
The sticker situation is fully covered.

I think rulefan's point is that the rule explicitly outlaws applying something (such as stickers) IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE CLUB'S PLAYING CHARACTERISTICS.
The little dots mentioned by the OP clearly do NOT change the playing characteristics of the club. So why are they outlawed?

 

[rulefan]

I think rulefan's point is that the rule explicitly outlaws applying something (such as stickers) IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE CLUB'S PLAYING CHARACTERISTICS.
The little dots mentioned by the OP clearly do NOT change the playing characteristics of the club. So why are they outlawed?

Exactly.
Nor can I find a specific mention in the Equipment Rules.

But I do know that EG and my County require that Starters and Assistant Starters ask players to check their clubs for 'dots' .

 

[rulie]

I think rulefan's point is that the rule explicitly outlaws applying something (such as stickers) IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE CLUB'S PLAYING CHARACTERISTICS.
The little dots mentioned by the OP clearly do NOT change the playing characteristics of the club. So why are they outlawed?

I'll let rulefan reply for himself.
However, the stickers are covered in the Exception to Rule 4.3a(3). which is titled "Adjustable Club Restored to Original Position or Non-Permissible External Attachment Removed."

Two things not the same are different!

 

[rulie]

Exactly.
Nor can I find a specific mention in the Equipment Rules.

If you look in the Equipment Rules under External Attachments, you'll find the part below, under attachments which could be permitted:
Attachments to the clubhead (other than the face), such as protective coverings, decorative items or alignment aids, provided the item is semi-permanent.

Imo, this says that attachments to the face of the club are not permitted.

 

[rulefan]

"Adjustable Club Restored to Original Position or Non-Permissible External Attachment Removed."

I obvious was already aware of this but still am unhappy about how loosely the explanation is.

If you look in the Equipment Rules under External Attachments, you'll find the part below, under attachments which could be permitted:
Attachments to the clubhead (other than the face), such as protective coverings, decorative items or alignment aids, provided the item is semi-permanent.

Imo, this says that attachments to the face of the club are not permitted.

I suggest this is still not absolutely clear. What does semi-permanent mean? I have been stood on the tee watching players trying to remove these dots with a penknife (possible) or a tee peg (not possible).
Following a few high profile DQs, I must admit fewer players a re questioning why they are problem. They just say they forgot to remove them but there are still players who can't see why they can have any affect.

 

[rulie]

I obvious was already aware of this but still am unhappy about how loosely the explanation is.

I suggest this is still not absolutely clear. What does semi-permanent mean? I have been stood on the tee watching players trying to remove these dots with a penknife (possible) or a tee peg (not possible).
Following a few high profile DQs, I must admit fewer players a re questioning why they are problem. They just say they forgot to remove them but there are still players who can't see why they can have any affect.

Imo, attachments to the face are not permitted. It doesn't matter whether they are semi-permanent or not, nor whether they change the club's playing characteristics or not.

 

[Deleted member 35504]

The little dots mentioned by the OP clearly do NOT change the playing characteristics of the club. So why are they outlawed?

They definitely do have the potential to change the playing characteristics because hitting the ball with a plastic sticker on the face of the club could significantly reduce the spin, hence performance.

 

[rulefan]

They definitely do have the potential to change the playing characteristics because hitting the ball with a plastic sticker on the face of the club could significantly reduce the spin, hence performance.

Unlikely as they are normally nowhere near the "sweet spot".

https://foresightsportseu.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403433500177-Clubhead-Marker-Application

 

[Viewer]

Unlikely as they are normally nowhere near the "sweet spot".

https://foresightsportseu.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403433500177-Clubhead-Marker-Application

So they aren’t banned then?!

 

[salfordlad]

The equipment rules make no possible permission for external attachments on the club face. Period. A club with external attachments on the club face is non-conforming. A club used during a round with the stickers means instant DQ but Rule 4.3a(3) permits their removal and that reverts the status of the club to what it was before the stickers were applied.
Interestingly, if those stickers were applied to the back of the head, not affect performance, not excessively protrude, semi-permanent etc, I see no reason why they wouldn't be pemitted. I'm not aware if anyone has tested these waters for practicality or an RB reaction.

 

[Deleted member 35504]

Unlikely as they are normally nowhere near the "sweet spot".

https://foresightsportseu.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403433500177-Clubhead-Marker-Application

Lol that's a twisted response.

Stickers on a club face could alter the playing characteristics, hence they are illegal.

The fact that stickers for launch monitors are normally small and positioned away from the sweet spot is irrelevant, they are still stickers attached to the head.

 

[rulie]

Lol that's a twisted response.

Stickers on a club face could alter the playing characteristics, hence they are illegal.

The fact that stickers for launch monitors are normally small and positioned away from the sweet spot is irrelevant, they are still stickers attached to the head.

From my reading of the Equipment Rules, I'm still of the opinion that those Rules prohibit any attachments to the face of the club. It doesn't matter what they may or may not do, they're just prohibited.

 

[salfordlad]

From my reading of the Equipment Rules, I'm still of the opinion that those Rules prohibit any attachments to the face of the club. It doesn't matter what they may or may not do, they're just prohibited.

Agree, but I don't consider it a matter of opinion, it is fact. External attachments are not permitted but there exists capacity for limited exceptions. External attachments on the face are outside any of the possible categories for exceptions. References in the Equipment Rules are 1a and 1a(iv).

 

[salfordlad]

Unlikely as they are normally nowhere near the "sweet spot".

https://foresightsportseu.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403433500177-Clubhead-Marker-Application

You keep asking the same question - why aren't they okay because they really don't affect performance. It is nothing to do with performance. No external attachments are permitted - that is the baseline. Then the equipment rules go on to identify some possible exceptions in certain circumstances. And external attachments on the club face are not part of the possible exceptions.