Throwing club from the top

[Customgolf900]

Hi all

I'm a good golfer struggling with early release throwing everything from the top. My right shoulder sort of starts downswing causing hands to overtake the right elbow immediately and straightening the right arm early causing me alsorts of shots including the dreaded sh..k dare I say it!! My question is, is it vital to start down with the right elbow leading straight down? I know the swing starts ground up with hips clearing etc... I'm only struggling on right elbow I just can't get my brain to stop throwing it all away early. Any suggestions? Greatly appreciated 😊

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hi all

I'm a good golfer struggling with early release throwing everything from the top. My right shoulder sort of starts downswing causing hands to overtake the right elbow immediately and straightening the right arm early causing me alsorts of shots including the dreaded sh..k dare I say it!! My question is, is it vital to start down with the right elbow leading straight down? I know the swing starts ground up with hips clearing etc... I'm only struggling on right elbow I just can't get my brain to stop throwing it all away early. Any suggestions? Greatly appreciated 😊

Simple answer (and boring) get a good pro to have a look. I think you're over thinking it (yes I'm aware of the irony!) any any issues can soon be ironed out in a half hour lesson

 

[TonyN]

Try practice swinging, trying not to unhinge your wrists on the down swing, ever. You won't be able to, naturally you'll unwind, but it will be as late as possible, delaying the release. Infact, try it when you hit practice balls. Helps create the old 'lag' too

 

[Customgolf900]

Hi thanks for reply I've been having lessons for past month spending a lot of money he said he was not bothered about club overtaking hands early just gave me drill to hold angles but I can't get elbow to start down, my hands go throwing club and lag half way down I never used to have this problem been playing 10+years

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hi thanks for reply I've been having lessons for past month spending a lot of money he said he was not bothered about club overtaking hands early just gave me drill to hold angles but I can't get elbow to start down, my hands go throwing club and lag half way down I never used to have this problem been playing 10+years

Is it affecting scores or just a feeling in practice. If the lessons are working on the course I wouldn't worry too much and maybe just mention it in passing in the next lesson. If he's not too bothered I don't think you need to be

 

[Customgolf900]

Try practice swinging, trying not to unhinge your wrists on the down swing, ever. You won't be able to, naturally you'll unwind, but it will be as late as possible, delaying the release. Infact, try it when you hit practice balls. Helps create the old 'lag' too

Thanks bud I'm trying my hardest to stop this unhinge but happens so early as hands start 1st with elbow staying high in good position though just looks wrong

 

[TonyN]

Thanks bud I'm trying my hardest to stop this unhinge but happens so early as hands start 1st with elbow staying high in good position though just looks wrong

Forget the elbow. Just try making down swings without unhinging the wrists. Try and keep the wrists cocked full stop. You will see how hard it is, but how late you will unhinge. I suffer this a lot. This is my practice swing when I do.

 

[Customgolf900]

Is it affecting scores or just a feeling in practice. If the lessons are working on the course I wouldn't worry too much and maybe just mention it in passing in the next lesson. If he's not too bothered I don't think you need to be

Yeah massively effecting scores I can't even get around course I'm that over the top early release the ball is sometimes coming off back of driver sending it left in ground 20 yards I'm used to getting around mid high 80s I shank lots on course but not at practice my ball flight is now high as flipping hands off casting is turning my six iron into nine it's nearly got me ready to jack it! I lose all lag because of errors from top really frustrating

 

[Customgolf900]

Forget the elbow. Just try making down swings without unhinging the wrists. Try and keep the wrists cocked full stop. You will see how hard it is, but how late you will unhinge. I suffer this a lot. This is my practice swing when I do.

Thanks will give a go tomorrow try slowing down in transition might help too cheers

 

[Dasit]

Found some Mike Malaska swing theory has helped me get my head around it.

Start here maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzKZjIl5f9Y

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Yeah massively effecting scores I can't even get around course I'm that over the top early release the ball is sometimes coming off back of driver sending it left in ground 20 yards I'm used to getting around mid high 80s I shank lots on course but not at practice my ball flight is now high as flipping hands off casting is turning my six iron into nine it's nearly got me ready to jack it! I lose all lag because of errors from top really frustrating

Why not have a playing lesson then and let him see it happen in real time. Clearly something happening between range and course

 

[Customgolf900]

Forget the elbow. Just try making down swings without unhinging the wrists. Try and keep the wrists cocked full stop. You will see how hard it is, but how late you will unhinge. I suffer this a lot. This is my practice swing when I do.

Found some Mike Malaska swing theory has helped me get my head around it.

Start here maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzKZjIl5f9Y

Awesome thanks will check it out now

 

[Customgolf900]

Forget the elbow. Just try making down swings without unhinging the wrists. Try and keep the wrists cocked full stop. You will see how hard it is, but how late you will unhinge. I suffer this a lot. This is my practice swing when I do.

Why not have a playing lesson then and let him see it happen in real time. Clearly something happening between range and course

Done that too mate just said casting club from top with open face through impact resulting in slice or shank think i fear the course so much I just can't get everything in sync trying to kill ball on course won't help as I'm swinging with shoulders

 

[the_coach]

Hi all

I'm a good golfer struggling with early release throwing everything from the top. My right shoulder sort of starts downswing causing hands to overtake the right elbow immediately and straightening the right arm early causing me alsorts of shots including the dreaded sh..k dare I say it!! My question is, is it vital to start down with the right elbow leading straight down? I know the swing starts ground up with hips clearing etc... I'm only struggling on right elbow I just can't get my brain to stop throwing it all away early. Any suggestions? Greatly appreciated 

though a lot of this will depend on grip hold on the handle, set-up, takeback & how the club gets to the top

thing to consider (however the top of the swing is reached) if the first intention is to pull the hands/handle & trail elbow downwards although that seems to be what happens in a good swing motion in essence it isn't

as all that's immediately goin to do is have the club seek 'alignment' (physics) with the force the 'arms' - so the top & bottom of that means if the hands(trail elbow) just get pulled goin straight downwards - that 'seeking alignment' sends the clubhead straightways outwards and aways from the hands losing the angles - so contributing to getting the out over the stop situation

good thing to consider when the top is reached don't pull downwards as count-intuitively as that will sound - imagine if the top position is like arrows in a quiver, to get one 'out' you have to pull more level backwards out of the quiver not down

equate that to the golf swing the hands handle initial intention is a ways better if the first direction of travel is out directly 'backwards' aways from target
to do that the right arm will just starts to straighten up a tad - may seem a pretty off the wall set of circumstances I realize but it's absolutely the case

could go into details of exactly why this is the physics of a golf swing, linear versus angular 'work' of the club in the swing with all the different positive & negative kinds of torques being applied (alpha, beta, gamma) but that just generally tends to confuse folks .....

bearing in mind the whole downswing varies someways around just 2 tenths of a sec that initial move of the hands/handle back away from the target is real real fractions then the whole arms/club unit travel down/out & forwards - {after the initial weight pressure transfer of the lower half of the body}

think of it if at a driving range once the movement of the club started in transition so handle direction away from target a point out in the range field - so if the club was let go of it would be propelled directly away from target towards the back wall of the range - if like in an out & over swing the club was let go off then it would be propelled out over the ball/target line towards the range bay divider to the stall infront

 

[Customgolf900]

Forget the elbow. Just try making down swings without unhinging the wrists. Try and keep the wrists cocked full stop. You will see how hard it is, but how late you will unhinge. I suffer this a lot. This is my practice swing when I do.

though a lot of this will depend on grip hold on the handle, set-up, takeback & how the club gets to the top

thing to consider (however the top of the swing is reached) if the first intention is to pull the hands/handle & trail elbow downwards although that seems to be what happens in a good swing motion in essence it isn't

as all that's immediately goin to do is have the club seek 'alignment' (physics) with the force the 'arms' - so the top & bottom of that means if the hands(trail elbow) just get pulled goin straight downwards - that 'seeking alignment' sends the clubhead straightways outwards and aways from the hands losing the angles - so contributing to getting the out over the stop situation

good thing to consider when the top is reached don't pull downwards as count-intuitively as that will sound - imagine if the top position is like arrows in a quiver, to get one 'out' you have to pull more level backwards out of the quiver not down

equate that to the golf swing the hands handle initial intention is a ways better if the first direction of travel is out directly 'backwards' aways from target
to do that the right arm will just starts to straighten up a tad - may seem a pretty off the wall set of circumstances I realize but it's absolutely the case

could go into details of exactly why this is the physics of a golf swing, linear versus angular 'work' of the club in the swing with all the different positive & negative kinds of torques being applied (alpha, beta, gamma) but that just generally tends to confuse folks .....

bearing in mind the whole downswing varies someways around just 2 tenths of a sec that initial move of the hands/handle back away from the target is real real fractions then the whole arms/club unit travel down/out & forwards - {after the initial weight pressure transfer of the lower half of the body}

think of it if at a driving range once the movement of the club started in transition so handle direction away from target a point out in the range field - so if the club was let go of it would be propelled directly away from target towards the back wall of the range - if like in an out & over swing the club was let go off then it would be propelled out over the ball/target line towards the range bay divider to the stall infront

Wow great reply and totally understand your theory if I pull down from top club will lever towards back wall of range that's exactly what is happening if I was to push level from top that would create lag right?

 

[the_coach]

Wow great reply and totally understand your theory if I pull down from top club will lever towards back wall of range that's exactly what is happening if I was to push level from top that would create lag right?

yep that's kinda the drift of it
- if the intention is to pull with the lead hand & kinda push with the trail hand thum pad so the very initial movement is linear directly opposite from target more level - so not vertically downwards - more like an archer 'withdrawing an arrow from a quiver' that kinda intention of initial movement then that means the angles are not lost at the start of transition from the top

- but don't think of 'keeping lag' so handle dragging towards target down at the bottom to get forwards lean though, as that will have the face open at impact all day long

if the angles have been set okay goin back to the top then the downswing is all about losing those angles in the downswing but at the right increments during the motion - that's what produces CHS & accuracy - although I get to a lot of folks that will seem totally counter-intuitive

top level swing motions at transition- if transition is started then the handle just let go the club flies directly to/at the back wall of the driving range as the 'down force part of the motion hasn't started even though its just milli-secs aways from starting
the over the top kinda swing motion the club won't fly in that direction and if let go of, it will fly out over the ball target line at the divider wall/net between the bays -if you get the drift of that

so in terms of physics in a top level transition there's linear force applied to the handle (by the lower body moving first, so good sequencing) first off, before the downwards linear motion so the 'angular forces' on the club release during the downswing in the optimum ways

out and over the linear is all downwards first off so the club seeks alignment with the hands/arms which flies the clubhead out and aways losing the 'angular' contribution (folks think of as lag) straight from the get-go of transition & also the trail shoulder moves out

 

[Khamelion]

I had, sometime still do, have the same problem, in that it felt like I was start my down swing with my right should, pushing it forward and round towards the front, this in turn, like yourself cast the club, loser all power, rubbish out to in path, then depending on when I tried to release the club, the face could be open, square or closed which resulted in big high slices, straight pulls, or pull hooks.

The pro that was giving me lessons told me that I needed to feel like I was pulling the butt of the club down with my left hand and that my right elbow tucked into my waist on roughly the same line as the seem on my polo shirt, then keep the feeling like the butt end of the club was heading out towards 1 or 2 o'clock, assuming your target line was 12 to 6. He also mentioned that I needed to keep my left arm touching my chest, on the back swing and down swing.

For most irons the release was around waist height, with the driver a little sooner on your down swing, the club head and your follow through then followed towards 1 or 2 o'clock.

But like all things you swing and the advice you get on here will be different, as everyone has their own view and what worked for them, the one thing the majority will agree on though, is see a good teacher, let him/her see your swing and then let them tell you what is required.

 

[Customgolf900]

Forget the elbow. Just try making down swings without unhinging the wrists. Try and keep the wrists cocked full stop. You will see how hard it is, but how late you will unhinge. I suffer this a lot. This is my practice swing when I do.

yep that's kinda the drift of it
- if the intention is to pull with the lead hand & kinda push with the trail hand thum pad so the very initial movement is linear directly opposite from target more level - so not vertically downwards - more like an archer 'withdrawing an arrow from a quiver' that kinda intention of initial movement then that means the angles are not lost at the start of transition from the top

- but don't think of 'keeping lag' so handle dragging towards target down at the bottom to get forwards lean though, as that will have the face open at impact all day long

if the angles have been set okay goin back to the top then the downswing is all about losing those angles in the downswing but at the right increments during the motion - that's what produces CHS & accuracy - although I get to a lot of folks that will seem totally counter-intuitive

top level swing motions at transition- if transition is started then the handle just let go the club flies directly to/at the back wall of the driving range as the 'down force part of the motion hasn't started even though its just milli-secs aways from starting
the over the top kinda swing motion the club won't fly in that direction and if let go of, it will fly out over the ball target line at the divider wall/net between the bays -if you get the drift of that

so in terms of physics in a top level transition there's linear force applied to the handle (by the lower body moving first, so good sequencing) first off, before the downwards linear motion so the 'angular forces' on the club release during the downswing in the optimum ways

out and over the linear is all downwards first off so the club seeks alignment with the hands/arms which flies the clubhead out and aways losing the 'angular' contribution (folks think of as lag) straight from the get-go of transition & also the trail shoulder moves out

Thanks so will give ago tomorrow get to the top then hip move to left while getting handle moving level away from target. it is a millisecond for things to get thrown out of sync as at minute my wrists are almost fully uncocked halfway down flipping through impact

 

[Khamelion]

Thanks so will give ago tomorrow get to the top then hip move to left while getting handle moving level away from target. it is a millisecond for things to get thrown out of sync as at minute my wrists are almost fully uncocked halfway down flipping through impact

And a chicken wing through impact as well I would guess?

 

[Customgolf900]

Forget the elbow. Just try making down swings without unhinging the wrists. Try and keep the wrists cocked full stop. You will see how hard it is, but how late you will unhinge. I suffer this a lot. This is my practice swing when I do.

And a chicken wing through impact as well I would guess?

Yip chicken wing is there too so bloody annoying as I used to have a great swing not sure how I've ended up here. Feels like I'm doing it right then video shows horrible cast I
Just can't stop my teacher has given me drills but as soon as ball there I'm fishing