The Wikileaks documents......

[Macster]

I sat and watched a White House spokesman answering questions about the information now freely available now that Wikileaks has posted the 90,000 documents, and how he seemed to 'justify' the war and the inevitable civilian losses on a supposedly justifiable quest to make 'us' all safer.

Now, I'm all for self -preservation and all that, but excuse me, is it acceptable for either US or British forces to kill innocent civilians with apparent regularity, not to mention indifference in covering them up, just because they happen to be 'somewhere close' to possible Taliban 'insurgents'.

I find it all quite sick, and I'm ashamed that we are even over there, and I wont be swayed from the view that its more about protecting Oil interests than anything else.

Anyone who doesnt know what I'm on about, can I suggest you look up Wikileaks, and at least watch the full 17min Apache Helicopter attack on innocent Reuters reporters, and try and comprehend the physochotic and depraved attitude of the crew during that 17mins.
If Wikileaks has uncovered 90,000 similar events, then I applaud Julian Assange.

 

[Spartacus]

I don't agree with the killing of civilians.

In order to make us all safer then close our borders, remove all threats and start acting like Australia.

We don't need our boys dying in some pathetic war.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

I don't agree with the killing of civilians.

Then you've never been to Plymouth!!!

If England was to receive an enema, it is here that they'd stick the tube.

 

[USER1999]

Sure you wouldnt start at Sittingbourne? I would.

 

[Yerman]

I don't agree with the killing of civilians.

Then you've never been to Plymouth!!!

If England was to receive an enema, it is here that they'd stick the tube.

NO way, I was on Plymouth Hoe last Guy Fawkes, absolutely fantastic - best fireworks display since the millenium. Some great places in and around Plymouth. also one of the best all-you-can-eat chinese restaurants.

 

[JustOne]

Anyone who doesnt know what I'm on about, can I suggest you look up Wikileaks, and at least watch the full 17min Apache Helicopter attack on innocent Reuters reporters, and try and comprehend the physochotic and depraved attitude of the crew during that 17mins.

They are doing what they are trained to do, I'm not sure what your issue is with it? Do you know the entire background to the incident? eg: was there not a curfew at the time, where they warned not to walk around in groups, had they not been in contact with the military to make sure they were in a safe area, had there been recent events that could have caused the US to think there might be RPG's in the area?

What if you were sitting in that chopper thinking of your wife and kids at home.. and thinking you might like to see them again one day... and is that an RPG on that guys shoulder?

War/fighting/death is not nice - there's no NICE way to show it. I didn't think it was that nice watching Saddam being hung - but he deserved it.

 

[Spartacus]

It would have been nicer watching him hanging WITHOUT the bag over his head.

 

[Macster]

JustOne: I dont know whether you are 'Ex-military' or something, or just like dis-agreeing with me, but I find it hard to find any reason to defend the actions of the crews of those Apache's in that incident.

We have 8 males walking around, hardly covertly, and hardly looking suspicous in any way, and to me, the crew are simply looking for something or someone to blow to pieces. To 'identify' a Camera & lense as an RPG from the distance involved was unbeleivably incompetant.

Regardless of that, and having opened fire and killed most instantly, the most sickening aspect was the way the Gunner and crew simply 'willed' the wounded individual on the floor to 'find a weapon',....so that they could pump in a few more 50mm rounds into him.
They are seemingly playing Call of Duty on an XBox, totally disconnected with the depravity of what they are doing, and even after firing on the Van that comes to the aid of the chap, mutilating 2 young kids inside, they are totally un-affected and un-repentant.

I dont know how anyone, even you, can defend it, and ask 'what my problem is', its totally & utterly barbaric and sick, and if Wikileaks manages to uncover the depth of the US forces gaffe's, I applaud Julian Assange.

It sounds like you should join up.

 

[Spartacus]

I don't think anyone can take a chance out there.

Too many sudden surprises.

 

[Robobum]

17 minutes for the "innocent" journalists to have realised that perhaps they were being monitored and for them to leave that area pronto...

How long is acceptable to spend identifying that the target is only carrying a camera??

Shoot becasue they have something slung over their shoulder?

Shoot when they bring the camera round off their shoulder?

Shoot when they point the camera at you?

Shoot when they have taken a photo........oh crap, it wasn't a camera after all.

 

[Macster]

The Apache's werent in any danger at all, its clear that those on the ground aren't even aware they are being watched, - the choppers were probably well over a mile away anyway.

It seems I'm alone in finding it abhorrent that they can kill so easily, without confirmation of why or who, and with such apparent indifference and enjoyment.
In the gung ho circus of war, I can understand why they dont show emotion or regret, but I cant understand the pleasure they seem to derive from willing a dying man to 'pick up a weapon', when there is clearly not a weapon in sight, and he is clearly nearly dead anyway.

I'm sure the aftermath of the event, and the thought of 2 small children with limbs removed will stay with them long after they come home, despite what they would admit.

Sure, War is unpleasant, but to let forces kill with such apparent ease is just sick, and I think we all know that Video is the tip of a very big iceberg.

The Yanks wonder why they cant win hearts & minds..........

 

[Robobum]

"Fair fighting" in any conflict is a completely one sided affair.

How many of those helicopter pilots' colleagues were identified as a genuine threat during another IED, suicide bombing, mortar attack etc etc??

 

[JustOne]

The Apache's werent in any danger at all, its clear that those on the ground aren't even aware they are being watched,

Yes, they normally crawl around the corners of building with 3ft pipes in their hands.... nothing remotely suspicious there!!!! or threatening...

From a mile away the apache pilot probably thought he was holding a cheese sandwich!... is that pickle and lettuce in there too?

nb: I also wouldn't take the kids with me to pick up some guys who'd been blown to bits by an apache

 

[Macster]

Sure - take a snapshot like that and anyone would believe he is crouching with an RPG or similar, but they have just watched the group walk casually down the street, with nothing more than a Camera & Telephoto on his shoulder ffs.

An RPG looks like this....

Im quite certain the crew would have have been able to tell the difference......

I particularly like the bit at 15.25 where the crew manage to add in that they 'were taking small arms fire' too, in an attempt to justify their actions to senior personnel.

Unbeleivable.

If, having watched ALL of the clip, you still ACTUALLY beleive that this group were insurgents, or actually had weapons, then you're as stupid as the US crews that killed 12/15 innocent civilians, including 2 Reuters reporters.
Mind you, perhaps they were undercover 'insurgents' posing as Reuters reporters ??

 

[Swinger]

I didn't think it was that nice watching Saddam being hung - but he deserved it.

Maybe Bush and Blair deserved the same.

Who knows maybe their judgement day will come too.

Looks like Florida and Louisiana have struck oil now too, maybe that'll keep the war machine at bay for a little.

 

[JustOne]

If, having watched ALL of the clip, you still ACTUALLY beleive that this group were insurgents, or actually had weapons, then you're as stupid as the US crews that killed 12/15 innocent civilians, including 2 Reuters reporters.

Maybe I am but fortunately I'm not having to put my life on the line to prove it one way or the other.

I'd rather the 'good guys' were in Apache helicopters and doing the shooting as opposed to walking the streets getting sniped, blown up and coming home in body bags - did you miss the constant reporting of our soldiers getting killed in one war zone or another? Apparently some people are upset by that too.

Like I said earlier, if I was in that helicopter and someone crouched down behind the corner of a building with anything more than a cheese sandwich in his hand I'd have probably pulled the trigger... damn stupid thing to do if you ask me.

JustOne: I dont know whether you are 'Ex-military' or something, or just like dis-agreeing with me, but I find it hard to find any reason to defend the actions of the crews of those Apache's in that incident.

I don't know anything about the incident, what happened the day before or indeed why the Apache was in the air in the first place. So I can only give my opinion as I see it, not disagreeing with you per se, but my instinct is to side with our own troops.

 

[Macster]

As far as I'm concerned, we shouldnt be there anyway, so troops coming home 'in bodybags' is unfortunately a consequence of sending them over there, and tragic it is.

However, what on earth makes you call the Apache crew 'good guys' ????
If we are supposedly trying to win a dirty war against unscrupulous 'insurgents', - people who do plant IED's and kill indiscriminately, then doing exactly the same thing is hardly the action of 'good guys' ???

As far as I am concerned, it doesnt matter a jot what 'happened prior', or why the Apache's were circling, they killed innocent people, 2 of which were Reuter's reporters, and having done so, tried to claim they were being fired upon as a justification.

The fact that the crew have never faced repercussions is perhaps a true indication of the regularity of this kind of event, which may come out amongst the 90k new documents released, and is exactly why perhaps as many new 'insurgents' appear to take up arms against us, and why this 'war' will ever be won anyway.

 

[Spartacus]

Kill or be killed is my war motto.

 

[Spartacus]

Our boys aren't there because they want to be. Hell they probably don't even want to be fighting this type of war.

Supposedly friendly soldiers are turning their guns on our boys on the snide so our boys are taking no chances.

Shoot first, ask questions later.

 

[Ethan]

Our boys aren't there because they want to be. Hell they probably don't even want to be fighting this type of war.

Supposedly friendly soldiers are turning their guns on our boys on the snide so our boys are taking no chances.

Shoot first, ask questions later.

You are a psychopath.