The West Lothian Question

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Doon frae Troon

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Looks like Tam Dayell's 20 year old question is about to be answered.

Government bill coming up which looks like there will be an English Parliament at Westminster at last.

With Scotland Wales and NI only able to send down 11 Tory MP's it will make Westminster an even bigger farce.
Hopefully this will mean full [Devo Max] Scottish, Welsh and NI Parliaments to follow.

Clever move to ambush the Scottish independence voting.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Looks like Tam Dayell's 20 year old question is about to be answered.

Government bill coming up which looks like there will be an English Parliament at Westminster at last.

With Scotland Wales and NI only able to send down 11 Tory MP's it will make Westminster an even bigger farce.
Hopefully this will mean full [Devo Max] Scottish, Welsh and NI Parliaments to follow.

Clever move to ambush the Scottish independence voting.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? - do you not think it could work the other way. With the Barnett formula likely to be up for review is it not likely that Westminster - under pressure from English constituents - will reduce the funding to Scotland or change the equation to base it on a differente 'pot'. And if Westminster Englsih MPs only can vote on areas of significant expenditure the size of the ''pot' available to Scotland could be less. And Scots would have no control over that!

With this proposal I can see decisions being made in Westminster that may not affect Scotland directly - but that may well have a knock-on secondary effect. The less say Scots have at Westminster the greater the risk to policies being made that have impact on Scotland counter to the wishes of Scots.

But I can't vote in the referendum so I'll let those north of the border - Scots or not - decide what they want for Scotland's future.
 
IS it not a fair concept that people living in England should have an English Assembly that can decide issues that only apply to English matters, in exactly the same way as Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland do.
 
Bit older than 20 years!

It's only political posturing. The road to the election started early!

This thread's as likely to be as sensible as all the other ones involving Scottish politics!

SocketRocket said:
IS it not a fair concept that people living in England should have an English Assembly that can decide issues that only apply to English matters, in exactly the same way as Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland do.
Click to expand...

That 'English' Assembly didn't truly cede power to the 'devolved' assemblies - having the power to overrule them should it really desire - it's only proper that there are representatives from those devolved areas. And it would be pretty much impossible to have a method of defining areas as 'universal' or 'English only'.
 
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Foxholer said:
That 'English' Assembly didn't truly cede power to the 'devolved' assemblies - having the power to overrule them should it really desire - it's only proper that there are representatives from those devolved areas. And it would be pretty much impossible to have a method of defining areas as 'universal' or 'English only'.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the 'English Assembly' that ceded power to the devolved assemblies as there is no 'English' Assembly.

I think you miss my point. I am not in any way suggesting we need to do away with the national Parliament that makes decisions affecting the whole Nation. I think it's only fair that England can have devolved decision making on issues that affect England in the same way as the other assemblies. I also think it fair that any restrictions parliament has set on the others would be set to this assembly.
 
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SocketRocket said:
It wasn't the 'English Assembly' that ceded power to the devolved assemblies as there is no 'English' Assembly.

I think you miss my point. I am not in any way suggesting we need to do away with the national Parliament that makes decisions affecting the whole Nation. I think it's only fair that England can have devolved decision making on issues that affect England in the same way as the other assemblies. I also think it fair that any restrictions parliament has set on the others would be set to this assembly.
Click to expand...

What on earth would that achieve by that as the English 'assembly' will always outvote the other three assemblies
 
SocketRocket said:
It wasn't the 'English Assembly' that ceded power to the devolved assemblies as there is no 'English' Assembly.

I think you miss my point.
Click to expand...

Well, you certainly missed mine!

Check our different positioning of the apostrophes and consider why I used them in the first place!

And Party Whip requirements aside, I believe that's pretty much how most of the MPs from devolved areas work/vote.
 
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Doon frae Troon said:
What on earth would that achieve by that as the English 'assembly' will always outvote the other three assemblies
Click to expand...

:confused: What? This is about an English Assembly deciding issues that only apply to English matters, in the exact same way as the Scottish assembly does now. Any National matters would be decided in Parliament by MP's from all British Nations, the same as it does now.
 
Foxholer said:
Well, you certainly missed mine!

Check our different positioning of the apostrophes and consider why I used them in the first place!

And Party Whip requirements aside, I believe that's pretty much how most of the MPs from devolved areas work/vote.
Click to expand...

You are correct, I do miss your point. You need to make it with more clarity for me to follow.
 
SocketRocket said:
:confused: What? This is about an English Assembly deciding issues that only apply to English matters, in the exact same way as the Scottish assembly does now. Any National matters would be decided in Parliament by MP's from all British Nations, the same as it does now.
Click to expand...

Yup sorry SR miss read your post!
I was thinking of the now 'defunct' British parliament.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Are you sure? - do you not think it could work the other way. With the Barnett formula likely to be up for review is it not likely that Westminster - under pressure from English constituents - will reduce the funding to Scotland or change the equation to base it on a differente 'pot'. And if Westminster Englsih MPs only can vote on areas of significant expenditure the size of the ''pot' available to Scotland could be less. And Scots would have no control over that!

With this proposal I can see decisions being made in Westminster that may not affect Scotland directly - but that may well have a knock-on secondary effect. The less say Scots have at Westminster the greater the risk to policies being made that have impact on Scotland counter to the wishes of Scots.

But I can't vote in the referendum so I'll let those north of the border - Scots or not - decide what they want for Scotland's future.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that.Scotlands block grant, based on the barnett formula will be directly affected by this governments ( and any following govts) spending plans.If England/Wales reduce spending on the NHS by £5, or decide to privatise it, the block grant gets reduced accordingly, irrespective of what the Scottish Executive wants to spend money on, and irrespective of what Scottish people/companies contribute to the pot.

Each of the 4 countries of the union need to go their own way, set their own agendas in accordance with what their population deems correct.We'll still be British, we'll still trade but we clearly have differing opinions on many topics.
 
Adi2Dassler said:
I'd agree with that.Scotlands block grant, based on the barnett formula will be directly affected by this governments ( and any following govts) spending plans.If England/Wales reduce spending on the NHS by £5, or decide to privatise it, the block grant gets reduced accordingly, irrespective of what the Scottish Executive wants to spend money on, and irrespective of what Scottish people/companies contribute to the pot.

Each of the 4 countries of the union need to go their own way, set their own agendas in accordance with what their population deems correct.We'll still be British, we'll still trade but we clearly have differing opinions on many topics.
Click to expand...

...and I'd add that Scots voters know that Scottish MPs will largely be 'other than' Tory - and generally 'anti' Tory. So Scots voters know that their MPs will often hold sway - and this is the problem. The 'hold sway' can be a tempering on largely English perspective on matters that might affect Scotland as well. And 'Engliand-only' and 'UK-wide' policies do not live in separate worlds - they are linked directly and indirectly.

Reduce the Scottish representation in Westminster (why keep it the same as it will largely sit around doing diddly squat) and/or limit the scope of what that representation can vote on - and Scots may well feel that decisions that will affect them are now completely out of their hands. And as soon as a populace feel powerless to the wishes of another body - that populace could well say - stuff it - we'll look after ourselves.

Example - nuclear deterrence - a UK-wide matter neither devolved nor Enlish-only. But the English view will always prevail - and if the numbers of Scottish MPs at Westminster is reduced then the English view is ever more likely to prevail on matters UK wide. The feeling that you could forever be subject to policies being imposed that you don't agree with may not feel that clever. The independence referendum decision is not just for Christmas - it's for good. And Scots and those outsiders able to affect the destiny of Scotland through their referendum vote would do well to remember that.
 
According to the latest Posh Boys gem, If Scotland gain independence they are going to make Faslane a British dependency within an independent Scotland.
Aye right.

Sorry OP [memo to self]........off topic.

Re original post.
Seems to be quite a sensible move to me.
 
Scotland doesn't get much of a say currently in Westminister due to lack of MP's in the con-dem govt currently. Any bill that Scottish MPs disagree with will generally get voted through if it suits the govts agenda.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
According to the latest Posh Boys gem, If Scotland gain independence they are going to make Faslane a British dependency within an independent Scotland.
Aye right.

Sorry OP [memo to self]........off topic.

Re original post.
Seems to be quite a sensible move to me.
Click to expand...

Start reading full stories instead of just headlines, you might then come across as slightly less obsessed.
 
Valentino said:
Scotland doesn't get much of a say currently in Westminister due to lack of MP's in the con-dem govt currently. Any bill that Scottish MPs disagree with will generally get voted through if it suits the govts agenda.
Click to expand...

Thats correct but when Labour was in government they had more say. That's the way parliament works.
 
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