The Golf Monthly debate - two forumers wanted...

[birdieman]

Whopper! emailed.
Not a fan, makes my mate laugh when he has a gps device, asks me what do I think it is and can reply with an answer within 2-3 yards max of his reading just by using the information around me. It really sends him to the fair.

tune in next month, hybrids!

Maybe on your own course standing next to a distance marker Brendy but over on an adjacent fairway, I doubt it. You will not know the lay up yardages either to course manage well.
First year I had one hcap went 5.2 to a lifetime best 3.7, I would honestly say the skycaddie was responsible because it makes you certain therefore you commit to the shot fully. It speeds up decision making too. I know exact yardages for short irons and it makes a big difference knowing whether it's 122 or 131 etc.
Markers on many courses are well out imo.
Quite surprised you haven't gone for it, you don't seem like a techophobe to me?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree. SC is perfect for blind shots (it was a godesend at Lydd) and from playing as I regularly do from the next fairway. If you are metronome straight then your scoresaver or yardage posts may well give you all you need but as I get nosebleeds if I hit the right fairway twice in succession I'll stick to the GPS gods helping me

 

[brendy]

To all three replies above, I love my technology, Have an iphone, cool laptop, car with gadgets etc but I really dont agree with gps devices, they are not in the spirit of the game to me.
For those of us who played 12 years ago etc in matchplay situations. Imagine this hypothetical situation , last hole, matchplay, you are all square. You blast one down the middle of the fairway leaving 150 yards to the centre of the green, you know because you are stood almost on the marker on the centre of the fairway. Your partner finds the rough to the left of the opposite fairway, stuck and struggling for line, distance and clubbing. You would have him by the short and curlies.
Fast forward a few years and now there is no advantage whatsoever as the GPS isn't going to tell you anything helpful, yet your opponent knows he has 155 to the centre and is approaching from an easier angle to miss all of the trouble. He gets his shot in first and puts it to 10 feet and now you are the one under pressure.
In the true sense of the game, man on man or man against the course, is an electronic gadget fair or "right"?

To counter the titanium headed driver argument etc, they have evolved from the wooden headed clubs that were used years ago, rules are there to ensure they cannot progress too fast and too far, GPS devices just turned up abruptly and barged their way into golf. They are neither a club nor a necessity to play the game the way it was intended. Blocking their use in any competition will not send many companies into liquidation as they can still be used in non competitive rounds and non affiliated society rounds.

 

[Losttheplot]

. Imagine this hypothetical situation , last hole, matchplay, you are all square. You blast one down the middle of the fairway leaving 150 yards to the centre of the green, you know because you are stood almost on the marker on the centre of the fairway. Your partner finds the rough to the left of the opposite fairway, stuck and struggling for line, distance and clubbing. You would have him by the short and curlies.
Fast forward a few years and now there is no advantage whatsoever as the GPS isn't going to tell you anything helpful, yet your opponent knows he has 155 to the centre and is approaching from an easier angle to miss all of the trouble. He gets his shot in first and puts it to 10 feet and now you are the one under pressure.

Never thought of it like that, it's a valid point.

If you reverse the point you made and say your in the rough on the opposite fairway then wouldn't you be happy you have a GPS to tell you a distance to the green?? I know I'd be happy with it.

I agree with you though, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if they stopped the use of them all together. It does bring an unfair advantage to anyone with a GPS but then again everyone has the opportunity to buy one and use one so it's up to the individual if he wants to be on an even playing field with others who have one.

 

[brendy]

Another bit that sends me to the fair is when guys say, "173 to the centre, 165 to the front and 186 to the back" then proceed to thin it 120 then if that wasn't bad enough,have the gaul to pull out the gps again for the pitch.

 

[Tommo21]

Another bit that sends me to the fair is when guys say, "173 to the centre, 165 to the front and 186 to the back" then proceed to thin it 120 then if that wasn't bad enough,have the gaul to pull out the gps again for the pitch.

Thats a good reason for not playing, nothing to do with GPS.

 

[Tommo21]

For those of us who played 12 years ago etc in matchplay situations. Imagine this hypothetical situation , last hole, matchplay, you are all square. You blast one down the middle of the fairway leaving 150 yards to the centre of the green, you know because you are stood almost on the marker on the centre of the fairway. Your partner finds the rough to the left of the opposite fairway, stuck and struggling for line, distance and clubbing. You would have him by the short and curlies.
Fast forward a few years and now there is no advantage whatsoever as the GPS isn't going to tell you anything helpful, yet your opponent knows he has 155 to the centre and is approaching from an easier angle to miss all of the trouble. He gets his shot in first and puts it to 10 feet and now you are the one under pressure.
In the true sense of the game, man on man or man against the course, is an electronic gadget fair or "right"?

What your're saying, to me anyway, hit it in the rough and you've no right to know the distance to the flag, hit it on the 150 marker and you have. Oh 12 years ago, if I was in a head to head and my caddie, you can have them, tells me it's 155.......is that okay. Oh the guy in hypothetical rough is smart, he's got the best line in.....next.

 

[sweatysock41]

got to agree with Tommo here, a gps is no different to having a caddy tel you the yardage. The difference is that the gps won't tell you what club you should use - should caddy's be banned?

 

[Bacardibatman]

To all three replies above, I love my technology, Have an iphone, cool laptop, car with gadgets etc but I really dont agree with gps devices, they are not in the spirit of the game to me.
For those of us who played 12 years ago etc in matchplay situations. Imagine this hypothetical situation , last hole, matchplay, you are all square. You blast one down the middle of the fairway leaving 150 yards to the centre of the green, you know because you are stood almost on the marker on the centre of the fairway. Your partner finds the rough to the left of the opposite fairway, stuck and struggling for line, distance and clubbing. You would have him by the short and curlies.
Fast forward a few years and now there is no advantage whatsoever as the GPS isn't going to tell you anything helpful, yet your opponent knows he has 155 to the centre and is approaching from an easier angle to miss all of the trouble. He gets his shot in first and puts it to 10 feet and now you are the one under pressure.
In the true sense of the game, man on man or man against the course, is an electronic gadget fair or "right"?

To counter the titanium headed driver argument etc, they have evolved from the wooden headed clubs that were used years ago, rules are there to ensure they cannot progress too fast and too far, GPS devices just turned up abruptly and barged their way into golf. They are neither a club nor a necessity to play the game the way it was intended. Blocking their use in any competition will not send many companies into liquidation as they can still be used in non competitive rounds and non affiliated society rounds.

(sry couldnt ps trees out of the way to make it easier angle,etc )

what if he whips out his strokesaver booklet? he's in the rough and it shows him the distance

shall we stop all yardage books too?....mind you would make the tour fun


and gps is effectivly just a digital yardage book - evolved from paper yardage booklets.

and tbh whats stopping them pacing out the distance to the green - at least its 5 minutes saved from just whipping out his gps than just walking up there and back

i use a skycaddie - as im not a member of anywhere atm and am playing different unfamiliar courses
and if i dont have a clue where the holes are or if theyre blind shot and i dont know where im going

i doubt id use it in competition - then again if he pulls out one of these large headed driver because he obviously has little talent & cant swing properly or play the game with a normal size club and needs a sweetspot the size of an elephants A$$ if he's got that advantage why shouldnt i use a GPS


had this reply done after Brendys post on the 5th but got so many tabs open didnt realize i hadnt posted it DOH!

 

[Imurg]

they are not in the spirit of the game to me.

To counter the titanium headed driver argument etc, they have evolved from the wooden headed clubs that were used years ago, rules are there to ensure they cannot progress too fast and too far, GPS devices just turned up abruptly and barged their way into golf. They are neither a club nor a necessity to play the game the way it was intended. Blocking their use in any competition will not send many companies into liquidation as they can still be used in non competitive rounds and non affiliated society rounds.

Again we hear this "Spirit of the Game" stuff - what the hell does that mean? Is it within the Spirit of the Game to use 460cc drivers, ProV1's, waterproofs that stop you getting wet?

GPS devices didn't just turn up, they evolved from the yardage book/Strokesaver, the same way Titanium drivers evolved from Persimmons. All the info in a GPS is found on a Strokesaver, it's just easier to use and probably quicker. So where's the problem? If your Guy in the rough had a Strokesaver he would probably have been able to work out the yardage and still put it 10 feet from the hole - trouble is it would have taken him 2 minutes to do it instead of the 10 seconds using his GPS.

Or lets go the whole hog and ban all yardages. So you wont get a sign on the tee of a par 3 telling you how long the hole is. Now is that in the "Spirit of the Game"?

They're as much a part of golf now as anything else. Ok, not everybody has one, not everybody wants one but the same could be said of 460cc drivers, ProV1's etc etc

 

[Dodger]

I played in a scratch event with a plus 3 man couple years back but the GPS's were banned so it was yardage charts for everyone.

Now the yardage books at this club were gash,really gash,the sort that have like 2 yardage points on them so this fella was finding the tree/bush or whatever it was with the yardage point on it and then pacing................took fu'@@ng ages for him to hit the shot and really got on my tits.

Fast forward 6 months and I'm with the same man in a comp with them and he's whipping the club out and hitting the shot in a matter of seconds cos the GPS is allowed.

Great bits of kit that speed play up so I am all for them and really cannot understand why anyone would be against these digital yardage charts.

 

[Bacardibatman]

I played in a scratch event with a plus 3 man couple years back but the GPS's were banned so it was yardage charts for everyone.

Now the yardage books at this club were gash,really gash,the sort that have like 2 yardage points on them so this fella was finding the tree/bush or whatever it was with the yardage point on it and then pacing................took fu'@@ng ages for him to hit the shot and really got on my tits.

Fast forward 6 months and I'm with the same man in a comp with them and he's whipping the club out and hitting the shot in a matter of seconds cos the GPS is allowed.

Great bits of kit that speed play up so I am all for them and really cannot understand why anyone would be against these digital yardage charts.

MY GOD ...... Ive agreed with dodger on something lol

 

[chrisd]

It always amuses me, the views on distance measurement devices. The are 3 ways to get the distance that you have to go - measure it, pace it or guess it, everyone can get an accurate yardage using either way.

None of these methods actually hit the ball for you, so what the heck is the problem? you know the distance, thats all! I heard Colin Montgomerie telling some amateur playing partners that measuring devices would be used in comps by the Pro's in a year or two and he certainly didn't seem to be against them (he was using one at the time as it was a practice round)

My playing partner can guess to within a few feet any distance that I can measure, I am hopless from 50 yards at getting the distance and when I first got my Bushnell and people took the pee I asked them to guess the yardage to a target and they were often out by more than 25 yards, so up to a couple of clubs.

I just think that the R and A need to bring them into the rules and stop a bunch of Major General soppy sods on the committe deciding what the rest of the club should do - everyone at every club should be allowed them and then its up to you!


Chris

 

[brendy]

Does the GPS give an advantage to anyone who uses it? yes it does.
Is GPS cheap and available to the masses? available but not cheap.
Does having GPS make every golfer faster? Not on your nelly.
Should courses do away with strokesavers and teebox yardage markers? wise up.

Spirit of the game, hard one to describe exactly, it is based on fairness, integrity and honesty.
To be a level playing field (dodgey handicaps aside) everyone should have the same means to play the game. My previous posts regarding playing a guy with a device while you dont still stands, is it fair?
The game should be about each player navigating his way round the course using only his own information gleaned from the course (and a paper strokesaver if so wished, these are cheap and available to all).
Professional Golfers, how come they aren't allowed to use them during competition? they are the benchmark and technology filters down from them, same as F1 lends technology to road cars eventually.

Distance measuring devices are real time, there in lies the big difference over any other type of marker or booklet. No side will win any arguments so lets agree to disagree, Jezz asked for opinions, he got them!
What next? sat nav for orienteering? Heads up displays for rally drivers?

 

[Tommo21]

What next? sat nav for orienteering? Heads up displays for rally drivers?

Yes

 

[Tommo21]

The reason it doesn’t happen in pro golf is the ruling body, they’re all having their afternoon nap.

 

[brendy]

Haha Love it! There'll be a book published soon then explaining what the wife says and what she actually means just like the jokes doing the rounds! haha.

 

[viscount17]

Can you do that on a course you've not seen.

Pretty much Tommo, I dont do it by sight, I take in all the markers/card distances etc and check out how far the flag is up the green (if yardage is to the fronts). Its not anything anyone else cant do.

[/QUOTE]

I can't for one. Back in my shooting days I was a pretty good judge of distance but not any more. If I'm any distance from the green I can't judge how far the pin is on.
and if you play rural golf you don't often see any markers!

 

[brendy]

Can you do that on a course you've not seen.

Pretty much Tommo, I dont do it by sight, I take in all the markers/card distances etc and check out how far the flag is up the green (if yardage is to the fronts). Its not anything anyone else cant do.

I can't for one. Back in my shooting days I was a pretty good judge of distance but not any more. If I'm any distance from the green I can't judge how far the pin is on.
and if you play rural golf you don't often see any markers!

[/QUOTE]
So how did people manage before they came along? The course records and weekly comp results must have been shockingly bad ?

 

[Imurg]

Does the GPS give an advantage to anyone who uses it? yes it does. So does a Strokesaver or a Yardage marker
Is GPS cheap and available to the masses? available but not cheap. Nor is the R11 - going to ban that too?
Does having GPS make every golfer faster? Not on your nelly. Nor does carrying...
Should courses do away with strokesavers and teebox yardage markers? wise up. Wise up to what? You're the one who wants no yardages available

The game should be about each player navigating his way round the course using only his own information gleaned from the course (and a paper strokesaver if so wished, these are cheap and available to all). Irrelevent. The information is available it's just another way of obtaining it.
Professional Golfers, how come they aren't allowed to use them during competition? they are the benchmark and technology filters down from them, same as F1 lends technology to road cars eventually. Don't see many Tour Stars using wide-soled Super-Game-Improver irons...

Distance measuring devices are real time, there in lies the big difference over any other type of marker or booklet. Sorry - don't see a difference

Sorry Brendy but your argument is about as solid as a Jenga Tower on a 45* slope. The information is out there.

Here's a scenario.
You, Me and Tiger are playing. We all hit a drive onto the same part of the fairway no more than 1 yard apart. I look at my GPS and find out it's 200 to the front. Tiger's caddy tells him it's 200 to the front. You're right next to the 200 yard marker so you know it's 200 to the front. Who has got this information from a different source? Stevie Williams will have walked the course, taken laser readings and pacings. I've got mine from someone doing GPS readings and walking the course, YOu get yours from someone doing a laser reading and planting a yellow disc in the ground. The same, exactly the same. This is why I can't see a problem with GPS/Laser. Any yardage marks, lengths of holes etc will have been done by Laser or GPS. Or does someone pace your 150 yard markers?

Using a GPS/Laser gives no information that is not already available on your Strokesaver. It's just electronic.
YOu're entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but to hold an opinion like that renders every advancement in the game a folly. To say you can't use something just because it's expensive is ludicrous. Many players can't afford a new top-end driver - but I bet a lot of them would love to. You can't ban something just because I can afford it but Joe BLoggs in Somerset can't? I can afford ProV's, many can't - going to ban them? Or Scotty's, Or Mizzy's/Titleists etc? Must we all play Fazer/Dunlop because they're cheap?

The only advantage GPS/Laser gives you is when you're off the beaten track and you need to pace 100 yards to a marker to guage a distance. With GPS/laser you don't need to. So you save a minute or 2. Is that so wrong?