The flying wedge....

[bobmac]

I do it my own way. And I'm a great wedge player

Of course you are Smiffy

 

[JustOne]

So you can either follow the advice from Philippe Bondanti and keep the angle in the right wrist......

or you can copy the guys below who have a straight line from their right arm through to the club shaft and the angle in the LEFT wrist

Your choice folks.

Your choice folks????


Sorry Bob but you're showing your ignorance.... or you just don't have the ability to grasp motion in a 3D context.

Here's Web Simpson... does he fit into your model?

How about now.... 3 frames earlier?

Maybe I'm a bit blind (I must be) because that position looks EXACTLY THE SAME as the one you posted at the top of this post that you were 'attempting' to take the mickey out of

From what I'm aware of people like Lynn blake, Homer Kelly, Sean Foley, Plummer/Bennett advocate the flying wedge (I can find more instructors if you like) these guys teach tour pros have books and DVD's.... they don't scrub it around their local range teaching hackers for 20 quid.

 

[bobmac]

Try this for size.
Do you still say this is right ?

 

[percy_layer]

I'd be interested in what kind of clubhead speeds would be needed to be able to play effectively with such angles through impact.

What is the effective loft of the clubhead when it strikes the ball in those photos?

With the clubhead speed of average club golfers, what is the longest club that can be used?


I must add that I do believe that the flying wedge drill is effective when used with the right pupil at the right time but is usually used with at least one other drill to lessen the chances of a 'holding off' type strike and a loss of power.



As Bobs photo above shows clearly, too much angle will result in a very low, powerless strike........

 

[SocketRocket]

Try this for size.
Do you still say this is right ?

And they say the art of destructive criticism is dead.

 

[Foxholer]

I hope it's realised that's there's actually 2 'flying wedges' involved in the down-swing.

I'm more inclined to 'concentrate' on the left arm one and let the right arm one happen naturally, with quality/power of the strike being the measure of success of any change - dodgy other swing mechanics notwithstanding!

 

[bobmac]

And they say the art of destructive criticism is dead.

Do you think that golfers should try and copy that position?

 

[SocketRocket]

Do you think that golfers should try and copy that position?

The cupped right wrist into impact. Absolutely.

 

[bobmac]

The cupped right wrist into impact. Absolutely.

Do you think that golfers should try and copy this position?

 

[SocketRocket]

Do you think that golfers should try and copy this position?

Why are you going on about that follow through position? I have explained and James has said a number of times now that the important position is through the impact zone. After that it is nice to see a nice fluid finish but it is not that important as long as momentum was sufficient in the zone area.

 

[DCB]

Before this degenerates into the usual swing post ending can I ask a question relating to the videos please.

If the right wrist is held in a cupped position, how is the clubhead released through impact and how is the follow through completed properly?

I'll say now my swing thoughts are more traditional so am trying to understand where the arms and club go after impact.

 

[SocketRocket]

Before this degenerates into the usual swing post ending can I ask a question relating to the videos please.

If the right wrist is held in a cupped position, how is the clubhead released through impact and how is the follow through completed properly?

I'll say now my swing thoughts are more traditional so am trying to understand where the arms and club go after impact.

The release IMO is much misunderstood. It should not be a turning over or flipping of the wrists but an 'up and down' hinging action. If you address an iron then lift it straight up with your wrists only then bang it back down into the grass, this is the release.

The clubface and wrists in a good swing stay square to the swing path. I hope this helps to explain.

 

[bobmac]

I have explained and James has said a number of times now that the important position is through the impact zone.

Obviously.
That is why the angle of attack is one of the 5 laws taught by the PGA to all pros during their training. And that is why I posted this clip ages ago to encourage people to learn the downward hit

[video=youtube;bJ2oBmW37eY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ2oBmW37eY&list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]

The only differende is the PGA don't give it a fancy name.

My concerns are how Philippe stresses the importance of not letting the swing go through to a natural finish which might give any new golfers problems in the future.

 

[bobmac]

The release IMO is much misunderstood

The release is something most golfers shouldn't do.
As most golfers swing out to in through impact, if they returned the club back square to that swing path, the ball would head straight left, in most cases never to be seen again.
So they learn to hold the club open with a chicken wing to stop the club hitting it left.
Which is why if someone wants to cure a slice, they have to change their swingpath AND clubface.
To get them out of the habit of holding the face open, some teachers may use the phrase 'roll your wrists' to help them get the feeling of getting the club face square. It's a bit like telling someone the 'compress the ball into the ground' it's just a thought.
Now if a golfer works hard at their swing path and tries to follow the positions in the video of the follow through, as I said earlier, it could create problems to someone who already has difficulties squaring the clubface up at impact.
Just my (ignorant) opinion

 

[SocketRocket]

Just my (ignorant) opinion

Was there any need to say that. Your words Bob not mine.

I have explained that the release is a downward hinge of the wrists, do you disagree with this? How can you not do it?

I am aware that people that swing out to in with a clubface square to path will pull, as in to outers will push. To me it's best to start off explaining the correct swing and how to achieve that, rather than putting sticking plasters on a poor one. When we look at those instructional videos we are being shown the best way to play golf. If I had a student who cut across the ball I would not tell him to flip his wrists, I would show him how to swing from the inside.

 

[JustOne]

The release is nothing to do with the club, it's an extension of the arms... you could easily do a nice full release on a club that was 90 closed or 90 open or hold the shiny end and swing the grip. The club head itself never releases, there's no such thing, it's what the arms are doing. The flying wedge teaches that the hands lead the shaft and the arms release fully into a full extension, without flipping or rolling the club. The rotation of the shoulders pulls the club up and to the left, combined with the folding of the left elbow we swing through to a finish.

I'd be interested in what kind of clubhead speeds would be needed to be able to play effectively with such angles through impact.

What is the effective loft of the clubhead when it strikes the ball in those photos?

With the clubhead speed of average club golfers, what is the longest club that can be used?

Club head speed? Not important as correct impact will optimise whatever speed you have

Loft? the clubface is less lofted by the shaft lean, but the face would be aimed more to the right (open) so your dynamic loft (the actual loft on the club) wouldn't necessarily be much lower, if at all. The angle of attack (descent) would have an impact on whether the ball flies high or low, ie; secondary axis tilt.

Longest club? Any. The ball position changes and therefore so does the angle of the wedge at impact. The shaft gets more upright the higher the left shoulder goes up. What is more important is that the head stays behind the ball to shallow the descent (secondary axis tilt) but that's the same for ALL swings.

 

[bobmac]

Your words Bob not mine.

Not my words.
Did you read the rest of this thread?

I have explained that the release is a downward hinge of the wrists, do you disagree with this?

Of course not.

What I am saying (again) is the angle in the right wrist shouldn't be held that long passed impact. Just my opinion.

To me it's best to start off explaining the correct swing and how to achieve that

That's exactly what I do which is why I take a high speed camera and a laptop so I can not only show what the pupil is doing but also work out with the pupil a way forward.

If I had a student who cut across the ball I would not tell him to flip his wrists,

Neither would I.

Anyway, I watched the videos, I didn't agree with some of what I saw and I gave my opinion in what I believed to be a civil and constructive manner, as I believe I'm entitled to do.
I shall say no more.

 

[Smiffy]

I shall say no more.

 

[Region3]

Surely this is just a drill to learn the correct feeling of hands ahead of the ball at impact. Do people really have full swings like this other than for a punch shot?

In a lesson once I was told to feel like my weight stayed on my back foot through impact. It was a drill to give a feeling, not an instruction to strive for.