The double standards of sport.

[Blue in Munich]

Football, apparently, is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans, whilst rugby is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen, and the governing body & fans of rugby waste no opportunity to point out the superiority of their sport, particularly in the morals department.

The hooligan John Terry was stripped of the England captaincy for touting his box and allegedly having an affair with a team mate's girlfriend. The gentleman Dylan Hartley amasses a rap sheet including head butting, eye gouging, biting, verbally abusing a referee and calling him a cheat, elbowing and punching, and is awarded the England captaincy.

Can someone explain this one to me because I'm struggling to work it out?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The RFU are willing to allow Jones pick his own captain ?

Or the England manager in football believes Terry was the wrong person to captain the England team ?

The choice of Hartley is a strange one and IMO he shouldn't be captain because of the rap sheet you mentioned

 

[User20205]

I think that moral ship has sailed. I see no discernible moral difference between the sports now, just cosmetic cultural differences.

Should Hartley be captain, if Eddie Jones thinks he's the right man, yes. I also think JT was poorly treated in a football sense but wasn't it the Anton Ferdinand incident that finished him off?

 

[Odvan]

Not into rugby at all, never have been but read this today.

Way i see it is that the manager believes this chap to be a super talent and the only way to curb his ways is to make him the leader and help him control his aggression via a huge responsibility.

Basically, make or break time. It will go one way, or the other.

Last chance saloon. Fair play to the manager. I reckon it'll work...

 

[chrisd]

I don't think Terry should have lost the Captaincy, what happens in his private life should stay private (subject to certain rules ie criminal convictions etc).

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Check out the stats for the Sports that have the most bans for drug issues.

 

[User20205]

Check out the stats for the Sports that have the most bans for drug issues.

That says more about the testing regime and the attitude of the governing body tho

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That says more about the testing regime and the attitude of the governing body tho

Many ways to interpret the data.

 

[Tongo]

I think that moral ship has sailed. I see no discernible moral difference between the sports now, just cosmetic cultural differences.

Should Hartley be captain, if Eddie Jones thinks he's the right man, yes. I also think JT was poorly treated in a football sense but wasn't it the Anton Ferdinand incident that finished him off?

Indeed. And BiM forgot Rio Ferdinand, captain of England despite having missed drugs tests and having been done for drink driving.

 

[User20205]

Many ways to interpret the data.

Absolutely. But how many positive tests did Russian athletes return or us postal service with lance Armstrong

Rugby seems to have a issue in pockets of rugby league and in Welsh amateur Union, at least they're testing and banning.

I'm surprised there are not many in football either recreational or enhancing. With all the cash around the temptation must be there both ways.
I bet they're all at it

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I'm surprised there are not many in football either recreational or enhancing. With all the cash around the temptation must be there both ways.
I bet they're all at it

You jest, but it's a serious problem IMO. It wouldn't surprise me if it all comes out one day. IMO, look at Bale, Ronaldo and others when they moved to Spain, and how their physiques change. NOt only that, but there is too much money in football NOT to dope. You need players to recover quickly, get quicker etc.

And don't even get me started on Athletics, I believe so many (including the British) that are doping it's unreal. Usain Bold magically being quicker than everyone else who has been found to be doping? Doesn't convince me. British cycling team suddenly peaking and winning all the medals at a games? Can't put it down to "incremental gains". I may be overly pessimistic, but they're all at it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You jest, but it's a serious problem IMO. It wouldn't surprise me if it all comes out one day. IMO, look at Bale, Ronaldo and others when they moved to Spain, and how their physiques change. NOt only that, but there is too much money in football NOT to dope. You need players to recover quickly, get quicker etc.

And don't even get me started on Athletics, I believe so many (including the British) that are doping it's unreal. Usain Bold magically being quicker than everyone else who has been found to be doping? Doesn't convince me. British cycling team suddenly peaking and winning all the medals at a games? Can't put it down to "incremental gains". I may be overly pessimistic, but they're all at it.

You might be 100% correct, but like you say that could be from a pessimistic point of view, I prefer to sit on the side lines when the mud gets thrown at football players when sportsmen from other disciplines get caught out, I think they call it deflection.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You jest, but it's a serious problem IMO. It wouldn't surprise me if it all comes out one day. IMO, look at Bale, Ronaldo and others when they moved to Spain, and how their physiques change. NOt only that, but there is too much money in football NOT to dope. You need players to recover quickly, get quicker etc.

And don't even get me started on Athletics, I believe so many (including the British) that are doping it's unreal. Usain Bold magically being quicker than everyone else who has been found to be doping? Doesn't convince me. British cycling team suddenly peaking and winning all the medals at a games? Can't put it down to "incremental gains". I may be overly pessimistic, but they're all at it.

It is sad that actions of others make people question clean sportsmen

Bolt has been shown that his stride length is a massive reason he is quicker than anyone else has been and the guy has been tested to the 9th degree and his reactions to Gatlin tell a story

British Cycling quietly improved as each Olympics went by - watching programs on them they gave a sample every single day but the amount of work they put in js unreal - it's hard work and talent that got them to where they are.

Football I have no doubt there is people who have taken some sort of performance enhancing and footballers have been caught but I would be surprised if the top guys do anything like it because they have so much to lose

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

It is sad that actions of others make people question clean sportsmen I agree, it is sad but that's how I feel

Bolt has been shown that his stride length is a massive reason he is quicker than anyone else has been and the guy has been tested to the 9th degree and his reactions to Gatlin tell a story Reaction doesn't tell any story unfortunately. I don't personally believe he is clean, no matter how much testing has occured. It could just as easily mean whatever he is on is too new for testing. I just can't believe that that he is SO much quicker than the fastest clean person, stride length or not

British Cycling quietly improved as each Olympics went by - watching programs on them they gave a sample every single day but the amount of work they put in js unreal - it's hard work and talent that got them to where they are. That almost implies other teams don't put in hard work or talent? Unfortunately with the history of cycling, for a team to dominate like they have (and I include Sky in this), there are a lot of question marks. Many many unexplained stories out there about the cycling team.

Football I have no doubt there is people who have taken some sort of performance enhancing and footballers have been caught but I would be surprised if the top guys do anything like it because they have so much to lose I would argue the top guys are the ones with themost to gain. Why wouldn't they, if their lesser colleagues do? As before, i think there is too much money in football not to. Drugs testing in football is famously bad!

Quoted as above

 

[pokerjoke]

Is it double standards in sports or double standard with individuals.

Some people turn a blind eye to all that is wrong and put people back on a pedestal.

Look at someone like Suarez and all his wrong doings,there's always someone willing to take him on because of his ability.

Look at Armstrong some will say what he was doing was ok because they were all doing it.

Look at Gatlin a proven cheat but once again given the opportunity to earn large amounts of money and compete for gold medals.

The sad thing is there are many out there that are doing it clean and many that are squeeky clean that deserve recognition but probably wont get it due to all the wrong doings of others and until it becomes zero tolerance it will continue.

Its funny but zero tolerance has been around for 20 years that I can remember but it seems there's no such thing in some sports.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Quoted as above

To dismiss people's talents as being explained by drugs is a bit more than sad

Bolts reason for being quicker than others has been proven to be down to the way he is built and that stride length - that's factually been proven.

Which unexplained stories about the British Cycling team ? - they take samples every day , every single one of them. Why can't people just be better than others - better run team with a better work ethic and more talented cyclists

So do you believe all people that win in sport are drug enhanced ? Spieth ? McIlroy for example ? In fact pick any sport where someone has won ?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Quoted as above

The British Olympic Cycling success was basically down the the fact they had a shed load of money from the national lottery (way more than any opposition teams), a relatively small number of credible opposing teams to beat and a visionary leader in Brailsford who knew what to do with it. They have done all they can to prove they are not doping, releasing blood passports, explaining how they used the technology to improve, showed how they used new materials, showed how they were able to shave times off here and there.

Success in sport can come from doping and it is naive to think that does not go on. But in any sport there have always been teams or individuals that dominate over a period of time as they have the natural talent combined with working harder, training more effectively, increasingly now more money and have a coach, team leader or manager that can get the most out of them. And that is how I believe the British cycling team have done it.

 

[pokerjoke]

To dismiss people's talents as being explained by drugs is a bit more than sad

Bolts reason for being quicker than others has been proven to be down to the way he is built and that stride length - that's factually been proven.

Which unexplained stories about the British Cycling team ? - they take samples every day , every single one of them. Why can't people just be better than others - better run team with a better work ethic and more talented cyclists

So do you believe all people that win in sport are drug enhanced ? Spieth ? McIlroy for example ? In fact pick any sport where someone has won ?

I agree

If everyone who was winning was a suspected cheat we might as well stop watching sport right now.

Someone has to be the fastest,strongest etc why does that mean cheating.

Its hard for someone like Froome who I believe to be 100% clean to win races then have to come out after and confirm he's clean all because what has been done in the past.
That really is the crux of the matter people looking back at history and tarnishing everyone with the same brush.
Yes its going on by a small percentage in all sports but they will be caught eventually.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree

If everyone who was winning was a suspected cheat we might as well stop watching sport right now.

Someone has to be the fastest,strongest etc why does that mean cheating.

Its hard for someone like Froome who I believe to be 100% clean to win races then have to come out after and confirm he's clean all because what has been done in the past.
That really is the crux of the matter people looking back at history and tarnishing everyone with the same brush.
Yes its going on by a small percentage in all sports but they will be caught eventually.

And me, agree too,

I'm not ignorant enough to believe no top Footballer has ever tried drugs and not been caught, but it's very easy to throw the mud and hope it sticks, The FA/UEFA/FIFA all claim to be very stringent with random testing both at league and international level, Footballers were randomly tested after every game at the World Cup in Brazil and no one was found cheating, what the cynic then does is blame the testing procedures.

The top teams employee top people to ensure the players are kept at a peak, the kit and equipment for this is second to none, watched a programme the other day were Leicester literally force there players in to a fancy walk in fridge after games to aid recovery.

 

[evahakool]

In 2016 Chelsea sacked a steward for calling Fabregas a snake, 2012 they didn't sack John Terry for calling Anton Ferdinand something far worse, and I can't repeat on here, there excuse " Chelsea appreciates and supports John Terry's full apology for the language he used"

Now that's double standards of the highest order.