The Ashes 2017/18

[Dando]

So why was he named in the Lions side. I thought a forum was open for all. If it was restricted to those that new it'll be a ghost town on here

Imho Hameed shouldn’t be anywhere the lions squad let alone the test team. He’s simply not good enough and scores too slowly which puts pressure on the other batsmen.

although he plays div 2, Bell-Drummond is a quality player and should be given a try soon

 

[Junior]

The guy you're recommending to replace the greatest English batsmen by total weight of test runs averaged less than 25 this year and had more ducks than 50s. Laughable.

He's been unlucky with injury, but, I'd add that he played 6 games or so in league cricket for Formby and didn't score above 35.

He needs a couple more 1000+ CC seasons under his belt, a lions tour then he'll be ready to step into cooks shoes.

 

[fundy]

just watched the highlights having stayed up until lunch, massively impressive from Cook however much people want to downplay his achievement on the pitch, series being over and depleted aussie attack etc

massive mental strength to score runs and when he does make it a big un

 

[Karl102]

Very pleased for Cook. An English legend in his own right!
The fact is that county cricket are not finding or bringing through enough world class talent. It a similar vain to footy, counties buy in overseas players for a period (its unusual to have an overseas for a full season unless they are retired from international cricket) instead of brining through young players. There is a bigger gulf now between the 2 divisions and the schedule of international cricket and international t20 lucrative deals has scuppered English cricket. We were top of the world 10 yrs ago with world beating bowlers and batsmen and now we struggle to replace players without scraping the county barrel.
Think of a bowler like Tymal Mills, I know he has a bad back and has been unlucky, but imagine him runnng in at 90 mph if he could play 5 day cricket.... who in county cricket can bowl 90mph plus consistently!
it’s the same for batsmen not being able to ply their trade in championship cricket against top bowling. I remember waqar younis is getting 100 wks in a season and Wasim ripping through teams for lancs. imagine being a young potential English cricketer facing these 2 week in week out.
I wonder how Hales or Roy would do in the middle order instead of Malan? I think their would be no difference.
The demands of the international scheduling has a lot to answer for. I also think the world wide t20 franchises will have a lot more to answer for in the coming years.

 

[Tongo]

Very pleased for Cook. An English legend in his own right!
The fact is that county cricket are not finding or bringing through enough world class talent. It a similar vain to footy, counties buy in overseas players for a period (its unusual to have an overseas for a full season unless they are retired from international cricket) instead of brining through young players. There is a bigger gulf now between the 2 divisions and the schedule of international cricket and international t20 lucrative deals has scuppered English cricket. We were top of the world 10 yrs ago with world beating bowlers and batsmen and now we struggle to replace players without scraping the county barrel.
Think of a bowler like Tymal Mills, I know he has a bad back and has been unlucky, but imagine him runnng in at 90 mph if he could play 5 day cricket.... who in county cricket can bowl 90mph plus consistently!
it’s the same for batsmen not being able to ply their trade in championship cricket against top bowling. I remember waqar younis is getting 100 wks in a season and Wasim ripping through teams for lancs. imagine being a young potential English cricketer facing these 2 week in week out.
I wonder how Hales or Roy would do in the middle order instead of Malan? I think their would be no difference.
The demands of the international scheduling has a lot to answer for. I also think the world wide t20 franchises will have a lot more to answer for in the coming years.

County cricket is an easy scapegoat but i think its more complicated than that. England's players are forever getting injured / losing pace. Steve Finn blamed the latter on the county circuit but surely the year round grind is the contributory factor? After all this is the same county circuit that didnt blunt the pace of Waqar, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Hadlee etc etc and they played more games. For me the English set up simply isnt working. Not the county game but the training and the pigeon holing of players. England are risk averse and would rather play players who are solid without being spectacular. Ali has been seriously found out this series with bat and ball and every time England go away he looks out of his depth. Quite why Rashid didnt go is anyone's guess. England needed a wicket taking spinner in Oz rather than one who will hold up an end. But Rashid can be expensive so England's selectors dont want to take the risk. Ultimately it is the ECB that should be held to account. Its their set up, their county game, their performance centre at Luffbrough. But they will shockingly distance themselves from the domestic game whilst Tom Harrison says everything is fine. (What does he know about the actual playing side of cricket?!)

 

[Karl102]

County cricket is an easy scapegoat but i think its more complicated than that. England's players are forever getting injured / losing pace. Steve Finn blamed the latter on the county circuit but surely the year round grind is the contributory factor? After all this is the same county circuit that didnt blunt the pace of Waqar, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Hadlee etc etc and they played more games. For me the English set up simply isnt working. Not the county game but the training and the pigeon holing of players. England are risk averse and would rather play players who are solid without being spectacular. Ali has been seriously found out this series with bat and ball and every time England go away he looks out of his depth. Quite why Rashid didnt go is anyone's guess. England needed a wicket taking spinner in Oz rather than one who will hold up an end. But Rashid can be expensive so England's selectors dont want to take the risk. Ultimately it is the ECB that should be held to account. Its their set up, their county game, their performance centre at Luffbrough. But they will shockingly distance themselves from the domestic game whilst Tom Harrison says everything is fine. (What does he know about the actual playing side of cricket?!)

I totally agree and Finn, Tremlett are good examples! Counties do have a duty (and plenty of cash from the ecb) to provide a solid youth foundation and coaching set up. Would be interesting to look at how many of the current team and U19’s came through the ranks and those that come through other means. When me and our kid had some time with Lancashire U19’s the vast majority of the team were from traditional grammar school backgrounds a la Mike atherton and John Crawley. It’s hard to break the norm and I don’t know if it’s the same now as it was 20 years ago!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hats off to Cook and great to see him carry on and break those records. However he was honest enough to suggest had he failed in this match that he'd be dropped. I wonder if he can keep going tomorrow. I still think he's been far to inconsistent in 2017 but if he can take this form forward then it bodes well. That I think will be the bigger challenge

 

[Digger]

Hats off to Cook and great to see him carry on and break those records. However he was honest enough to suggest had he failed in this match that he'd be dropped. I wonder if he can keep going tomorrow. I still think he's been far to inconsistent in 2017 but if he can take this form forward then it bodes well. That I think will be the bigger challenge

I think it's more of a case of whether Jimmy can keep going. I fear Cook will run out of partners.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think it's more of a case of whether Jimmy can keep going. I fear Cook will run out of partners.

Up to Cook to rotate the strike but let's see what happens

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I totally agree and Finn, Tremlett are good examples! Counties do have a duty (and plenty of cash from the ecb) to provide a solid youth foundation and coaching set up. Would be interesting to look at how many of the current team and U19’s came through the ranks and those that come through other means. When me and our kid had some time with Lancashire U19’s the vast majority of the team were from traditional grammar school backgrounds a la Mike atherton and John Crawley. It’s hard to break the norm and I don’t know if it’s the same now as it was 20 years ago!

Hardly surprising as the State schools barely play any cricket.

My two sons played for Leics from U11 to U19 and the squads were always a mix of those produced by the Independent schools and the Clubs.

This seemed to work well and produced some pretty useful players although there was always the one concern.

Too many coaches want to focus on what players can't do rather than further developing a player's existing talents.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Too many coaches want to focus on what players can't do rather than further developing a player's existing talents.

Isn't that the case in too many sports these days. Don't think cricket is alone with that

 

[Tongo]

Hardly surprising as the State schools barely play any cricket.

My two sons played for Leics from U11 to U19 and the squads were always a mix of those produced by the Independent schools and the Clubs.

This seemed to work well and produced some pretty useful players although there was always the one concern.

Too many coaches want to focus on what players can't do rather than further developing a player's existing talents.

You do wonder how far Steve Smith, with his idiosyncracies and unorthodox style, would have got in English cricket. What with all the 'coaching' and everything.

 

[Piece]

You do wonder how far Steve Smith, with his idiosyncracies and unorthodox style, would have got in English cricket. What with all the 'coaching' and everything.

Yes good point. When he first made the test squad, he was an all rounder and touted as a decent leggy. He was an awful batsman, a walking wicket. Told to ditch the bowling and focus on his strength as a batsman...worked quite well I’d say.

I remember the time our coaches tried to correct Jimmy’s delivery action, making him more upright and looking at the pitch on delivery. He was flucked for a few years as he was dazed and confused. Botham said at the time, just leave him alone and let him do his natural thing.

My biggest bug bear is that our recent crop of players just don’t move their feet enough for test match cricket. Get your feet moving to the pitch with your head in line and you’ve a great start for a test technique.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I grew up playing cricket in the early 80's and batsmen were taught to play like Boycott and bowlers like Hadlee. Those days are long gone. Rather like golf swings coaches now allow them to have their own style and work with what they have.

Coaching has never been better, facilities have never been better. You need to look elsewhere for reasons why England have lost.

 

[Tongo]

I grew up playing cricket in the early 80's and batsmen were taught to play like Boycott and bowlers like Hadlee. Those days are long gone. Rather like golf swings coaches now allow them to have their own style and work with what they have.

Coaching has never been better, facilities have never been better. You need to look elsewhere for reasons why England have lost.

The simple answer is that Australia have got better bowlers to exploit their home conditions and they also have the best batsman on the planet. Bowlers win test matches, especially if there is one high quality batsman consistently producing. England's bowlers cannot match the Aussies for pace but they simply havent bowled well enough. Glenn McGrath took plenty of wickets in Oz despite being not much more than medium pace but he was class enough to put the ball on the money the majority of the time. If you havent got pace then you must be accurate and England's bowlers havent been. Plus Rashid should have played as the front line spinner but, as i said earlier, that was too much of a risk.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

You do wonder how far Steve Smith, with his idiosyncracies and unorthodox style, would have got in English cricket. What with all the 'coaching' and everything.

Absolutely.

An example. At the age of 14 my elder son (Number 4 or 5 batsman) was criticised by one of the coaches for scoring 40 in11 balls. 4x6, 3x4, 2x2 when every shot was hit in the V. At the time the team were looking to accelerate in order to set a target.

Apparently he was running a risk of disturbing the concentration of his partner who had scored 87 in 30 odd overs of a 50 overs match.

Funnily enough he received a more positive response from the other County's coach.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The simple answer is that Australia have got better bowlers to exploit their home conditions and they also have the best batsman on the planet. Bowlers win test matches, especially if there is one high quality batsman consistently producing. England's bowlers cannot match the Aussies for pace but they simply havent bowled well enough. Glenn McGrath took plenty of wickets in Oz despite being not much more than medium pace but he was class enough to put the ball on the money the majority of the time. If you havent got pace then you must be accurate and England's bowlers havent been. Plus Rashid should have played as the front line spinner but, as i said earlier, that was too much of a risk.

Wouldn't argue with that.

Not sure Rashid is the answer but we have little else and he would have been worth a go. The alternative has failed badly. Way too conservative an approach.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Wouldn't argue with that.

Not sure Rashid is the answer but we have little else and he would have been worth a go. The alternative has failed badly. Way too conservative an approach.

Jack Leach was the one to take or even Dom Bess if they refuse to trust Leach

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Jack Leach was the one to take or even Dom Bess if they refuse to trust Leach

Don't think the Aussie groundsmen would have been quite as, how shall I put it, co-operative as the guy at Taunton 😉

 

[TheDiablo]

I grew up playing cricket in the early 80's and batsmen were taught to play like Boycott and bowlers like Hadlee. Those days are long gone. Rather like golf swings coaches now allow them to have their own style and work with what they have.

Coaching has never been better, facilities have never been better. You need to look elsewhere for reasons why England have lost.

Don't quite agree to be honest. Yes, facilities have never been better. But those that come through the 'system' all look like the same bowler. They all try to get moulded into what the stats say a 'perfect' fast bowler is in the technical sense. Only have to look at how they messed with Jimmy, Finn and Plunkett (plus countless juniors we never got the chance to see because their idiosyncrasies were coached out of them).

It's also a massive reason why we can't produce any spinners (along with the CC pitches).

I don't know much about the equivalent methods for batsmen in the coaching system but I'd be surprised if the mentality differs at all.

England cricket has been obsessed with coaching their specific methods regardless of individuality for the last 10 years and there's very little to show for it.