Swing problem... what to work on?

[Region3]

This could be a long post, sorry in advance

I've always faded the ball which is fine by me, if only it was a consistent fade. The problem is that sometimes it would go straight instead, and sometimes it would be a big push/slice.

I had a couple of lessons hoping to get rid of the push/slice, and as I've said somewhere else in the forums (but can't remember where) I was horrified to see my own swing on video. Swaying backwards on my backswing (I would say my head moved maybe a foot backwards) and straightening my right leg almost standing upright. Then on the downswing I was lunging towards the target so much that my left hip was to the left of my left foot when I hit the ball, sometimes so much that I would lose balance on the follow through.

The pro said that the lunge forwards was causing the push/slice because my body (and consequently my arms and hands) were getting in front of the ball before I hit it.

For the last couple of weeks I've been working on keeping my legs much 'quieter' throughout the swing and think I've made good progress. I'm definitely not moving on the backswing now, but I'd like advice on what my lower half should be doing on the downswing.

For example, should I be thinking...

keep as still as I can and let my body worry about where to go.
think about rotating my left hip out of the way.
think about turning my right hip towards the target.
or something else?

I've played around with all 3 for short periods on the range and on the course with varying degrees of success, but I'd rather know the right way and work on that alone.

Is there a right answer, or does 'it depend', or am I over complicating things for no reason?

Thanks.

 

[bobmac]

Without seeing your swing live or on video, it is a bit difficult to tell, but your description of your swing is so good I can almost see it. I assume you are right handed.
On your backswing you are sliding your hips off the ball and losing your posture (Standing up). The weight is probably moving onto your left side with your right leg straightening, not a great position to launch an attack on the ball.
My advice would be to try and keep the weight on the inside of your right foot and your right knee flexed on the backswing and keep the weight on the inside of your left foot at the completion of the swing.
This should give you more a sensation of turning rather than sliding.

 

[RGDave]

If I many be so bold - I don't go a bundle on the "controlling the hips" thing. i.m.o. this is only for good players who can break down their swing into compartments that they feel they can control whilst thinking about just hitting the bloomin' thing!
Almost every player I've met, other than super experienced and/or talented who's gone down this route has not got very far. Sure, it's true that a slicer should practice pulling the club down, getting the head inside their normal line (in the slot) and "fire" the right hip, but it's easier said than done. I spent (wasted) hours trying to get it right.

Get into this sort of thing once you have fixed the core issue.
You have to stop the excessive swaying before attending to this i.m.o.

I'm working on all this stuff myself....it's a hard journey to put it right.

Practice turning without swaying and getting in the slot then worry about the hips etc.

I sliced for the first few years, then developed a draw/hook swing with the help of a good pro (who'd learned how to teach with/from Denis Pugh). Towards the end of this period, I could shoot good scores (74-80) most games. Mind over matter and good drills were what fixed me.

I'm not an expert (obviously) but I know from personal experience that simply trying to control your hips without all the rest is pointless.

 

[Region3]

Without seeing your swing live or on video, it is a bit difficult to tell, but your description of your swing is so good I can almost see it. I assume you are right handed.
On your backswing you are sliding your hips off the ball and losing your posture (Standing up). The weight is probably moving onto your left side with your right leg straightening, not a great position to launch an attack on the ball.
My advice would be to try and keep the weight on the inside of your right foot and your right knee flexed on the backswing and keep the weight on the inside of your left foot at the completion of the swing.
This should give you more a sensation of turning rather than sliding.

Yes, I'm right-handed. Your description of what's happening is pretty much spot-on apart from most of the weight at the top of my backswing was on my right leg.

I say 'was' because that's what I've been working on for the last couple of weeks - keeping the flex in my right knee and not moving my head, so not moving so much weight towards my back leg, and I think I'm much better now in that regard than I was before.
It's the thought for the downswing that I'm after ideally. I understand how difficult it is from only my description.

Did I read somewhere on another thread that you are a coach?
I'd be quite happy to book a lesson and travel over, as long as it's not the far side of Lincolnshire!) if you think you could help.

 

[bobmac]

Thats a very kind offer and yes, I am a PGA coach, but I'm sure there are lots to chose from alot nearer to you than where I am which is 20 mins south of Lincoln.
Go around your local clubs and have a chat with them. I'm sure they'll be able to help you out.

 

[Region3]

If I many be so bold - I don't go a bundle on the "controlling the hips" thing. i.m.o. this is only for good players who can break down their swing into compartments that they feel they can control whilst thinking about just hitting the bloomin' thing!
Almost every player I've met, other than super experienced and/or talented who's gone down this route has not got very far. Sure, it's true that a slicer should practice pulling the club down, getting the head inside their normal line (in the slot) and "fire" the right hip, but it's easier said than done. I spent (wasted) hours trying to get it right.

Get into this sort of thing once you have fixed the core issue.
You have to stop the excessive swaying before attending to this i.m.o.

I'm working on all this stuff myself....it's a hard journey to put it right.

Practice turning without swaying and getting in the slot then worry about the hips etc.

I sliced for the first few years, then developed a draw/hook swing with the help of a good pro (who'd learned how to teach with/from Denis Pugh). Towards the end of this period, I could shoot good scores (74-80) most games. Mind over matter and good drills were what fixed me.

I'm not an expert (obviously) but I know from personal experience that simply trying to control your hips without all the rest is pointless.

You can be as bold as you like All constructive comments appreciated.

I've never ever messed with my swing before. I always thought it is what it is and lived with it, but finally decided to try to rid myself of the shot that at least 2 or 3 times a round put me either in deep trouble or OOB depending on which holes it happened.

For what it's worth I've been told that it isn't caused by an out-to-in swing. In fact, when I get one right now I hit a slight draw!

I feel that I've stopped the (excessive) swaying on the backswing, and now have to work on avoiding the lunge towards the target on the downswing.

I agree 100% that I can't just work on the hips and everything will be fixed, but I do believe that I learn best just working on one thing at a time.

 

[RGDave]

For what it's worth I've been told that it isn't caused by an out-to-in swing. In fact, when I get one right now I hit a slight draw!

A push/slice that sometimes draws is not a bad place to be!
Loads of players get away with this and "balance" the direction of the intended shot with tweaking the grip.

 

[bobmac]

Is your grip weak, strong or neutral?

 

[Region3]

Not sure what you would call weak, strong, or neutral, but I can easily see 3 knuckles on my left hand and almost see the fourth.

 

[Smiffy]

I can easily see 3 knuckles on my left hand and almost see the fourth.

Ahhh the old "four knuckle shuffle"
Cut that out and you'll be booming it young man

 

[RGDave]

Not sure what you would call weak, strong, or neutral, but I can easily see 3 knuckles on my left hand and almost see the fourth.

Just a thought. See if you can set your grip to exactly the most neutral you can manage. It will feel bad, but try to hit some balls and see what happens. I would call neutral having the left thumb the smallest fraction to the right of the centre and then balancing the right grip so both the "Vs" are at your right eye. You probably know all this and some might not agree, but f.w.i.w. I feel a good grip is one where neither hand is too strong or weak COMPARED to the other

I hooked loads of shots the other day...?...my left hand was as normal, but I realised that my right was WAY stronger.

With a balanced/neutral grip you will soon discover if you are effective at crossing the hands over through impact (to square the face) or lazy. If you discover every ball leaks/slices right, then maybe practice drills specific to improving your hands through impact.

I practised with a "spot on" grip yesterday and it took 20 minutes to even get close to squaring the face. Once I was getting the timing and action correct, I was boshing the ball miles.....like 175 yard 7 irons.

I reckon if you play with a good grip that is comfy and well placed but a little weak or strong you can soon build a picture of what the "bad" shot is and weaken or strengthen as necessary. A bad grip will mask a bad swing and get you into bad habits, so it's worth checking as often as possible.

 

[minty18]

Dave what was your tip for releasing the hands then? i struggle with it sometimes.

 

[CrapHacker]

It's the thought for the downswing that I'm after ideally. I understand how difficult it is from only my description.

If you are looking for just a simple thought at the transion try messing about with the idea of 'planting' your left leg, if that makes any sense to you.

 

[Region3]

I can easily see 3 knuckles on my left hand and almost see the fourth.

Ahhh the old "four knuckle shuffle"
Cut that out and you'll be booming it young man

I heard that wrist strength is very important

 

[Region3]

Not sure what you would call weak, strong, or neutral, but I can easily see 3 knuckles on my left hand and almost see the fourth.

Just a thought. See if you can set your grip to exactly the most neutral you can manage. It will feel bad, but try to hit some balls and see what happens. I would call neutral having the left thumb the smallest fraction to the right of the centre and then balancing the right grip so both the "Vs" are at your right eye. You probably know all this and some might not agree, but f.w.i.w. I feel a good grip is one where neither hand is too strong or weak COMPARED to the other

I hooked loads of shots the other day...?...my left hand was as normal, but I realised that my right was WAY stronger.

With a balanced/neutral grip you will soon discover if you are effective at crossing the hands over through impact (to square the face) or lazy. If you discover every ball leaks/slices right, then maybe practice drills specific to improving your hands through impact.

I practised with a "spot on" grip yesterday and it took 20 minutes to even get close to squaring the face. Once I was getting the timing and action correct, I was boshing the ball miles.....like 175 yard 7 irons.

I reckon if you play with a good grip that is comfy and well placed but a little weak or strong you can soon build a picture of what the "bad" shot is and weaken or strengthen as necessary. A bad grip will mask a bad swing and get you into bad habits, so it's worth checking as often as possible.

It's funny you mention the grip, as that was the first thing the pro changed when I went for my first lesson.

I never used to worry about the technicalities of my swing so didn't read tips or golf instruction. My grip used to be what I think would be termed weak, with both thumbs pointing straight down the grip.
Strangely, my bad shots are exactly the same now as they were before, even though my grip has moved clockwise around the club about 30-40 degrees.
I guess that means my body has altered the way it swings the club in an effort to square the clubface at impact? Definitely no conscious effort from me to do anything different in that regard.

 

[Region3]

It's the thought for the downswing that I'm after ideally. I understand how difficult it is from only my description.

If you are looking for just a simple thought at the transion try messing about with the idea of 'planting' your left leg, if that makes any sense to you.

Thanks, I think it makes sense, and you're right, just one thought is what I was hoping for.

That together with Bob saying to have the weight on the inside of my left foot give me the idea that the feeling will be of stopping my body from moving towards the target by bracing it against my left leg.

In the past I know I didn't do that because my hips were closer to the target than my left foot before I'd hit the ball.

 

[CrapHacker]

It's the thought for the downswing that I'm after ideally. I understand how difficult it is from only my description.

If you are looking for just a simple thought at the transion try messing about with the idea of 'planting' your left leg, if that makes any sense to you.

Thanks, I think it makes sense, and you're right, just one thought is what I was hoping for.

That together with Bob saying to have the weight on the inside of my left foot give me the idea that the feeling will be of stopping my body from moving towards the target by bracing it against my left leg.

In the past I know I didn't do that because my hips were closer to the target than my left foot before I'd hit the ball.

Yup that sounds spot on.

I've been told by a couple of the guys here ( good long hitters btw ) that you ( I/we ) need to swing against a firm left side.

By 'planting' the left foot you make the initial weight transfer back to the left and you give yourself that firm left side to swing against.

I'm not quite there implementing it into my own game yet, but I can see signs of improvement already.

 

[JustOne]

Try hitting balls with your feet together... it will stop you moving about so much.

Hit 20 with your feet together then hit a few normal shots ......and repeat.

 

[Region3]

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a go.

I played yesterday and was much better. I widened my stance a little because I felt like my weight on the downswing was on the outside of my left foot. Now it's more towards the inside and feels like my left leg is much more solid at impact.

Thanks to all that offered advice