So does frost damage greens?

[Captain_Black]

A bit confused?
Some clubs in my area advertise "no temporary greens"
But, my club use temps as soon as a frost appears (like last night & tonight)
So does a frost damage greens or not?
If it does, then why don't all clubs use temps?

 

[aceofspades]

I attended a presentation made by the STRI at my golf club last year and it was clearly stated that players walking on frosty greens would cause damage and this would be noticeable during spring/summer.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

My old club, a public course and a very busy one has had a no temps guarantee for the last 6 or 7 years and during the summer they are perfect, probably some of the best in the area. So if you want to tell me playing on them while frozen damages them I wouldn't believe you

 

[Aztecs27]

My old club, a public course and a very busy one has had a no temps guarantee for the last 6 or 7 years and during the summer they are perfect, probably some of the best in the area. So if you want to tell me playing on them while frozen damages them I wouldn't believe you

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I played our greens last winter when they were like ice (balls bouncing 20ft in the air when they hit them) and they were perfect during this lat summer.

 

[BTatHome]

We don't use temps for a liht frost and have not experienced any issues because of it. However if we have had quite bad rain beforehand then frozen green is dangerous and so won't be used .... Generally that'll probably mean the course is closed though.

 

[NWJocko]

My old club, a public course and a very busy one has had a no temps guarantee for the last 6 or 7 years and during the summer they are perfect, probably some of the best in the area. So if you want to tell me playing on them while frozen damages them I wouldn't believe you

I must agree.

I must also admit to knowing nada about greenkeeping but our greens are always on over winter and doesn't seem to have an adverse effect. The greenkeeper there maintains that it makes no difference.

Biggest problem we had this year was when the irrigation system broke during the drought in Spring!

 

[Imurg]

From my experience the only damage done to greens by using them when frozen/frosty is short-term - pitchmarks can be hard to repair (if you make one) and footprints hang around longer making putting even more of a lottery.

 

[wull]

the frost damages the roots of the grass when we walk on them........

some course that play no temp greens at all will either be open or closed depending on the weather.

so gleneagles for example will be full course until there is say a hard frost and then it will close.

i personally like this way because playing on temp greens is nothing less than crap...

 

[trevor]

i personally like this way because playing on temp greens is nothing less than crap... [/QUOTE]

Still better than not playing at all IMHO

 

[Fyldewhite]

I believe St Annes Old Links which is an open qualifying course this year never use temps even when frosty. I'm not a greenkeeper and perhaps the types of grass may be important? Not sure, but it certainly does their greens no harm, they are easily the best in the area.

 

[thecraw]

There seems to be varying reports on this from the so called experts as well. My course takes us off big greens when frosty but the club up the road subscribe to the theory that the greens should be in play all year round!

I couldn't care less and don't mind winters, winter golf is about exercise and fresh air.

 

[Dodger]

Seems to differ everywhere,Dornoch Struie was open today yet the championship course was shut due to frost....hard to work out eh??

Goswick seems to never shut or have temps during frost.

 

[patricks148]

Seems to differ everywhere,Dornoch Struie was open today yet the championship course was shut due to frost....hard to work out eh??

Goswick seems to never shut or have temps during frost.

if its frosty the championship course closes and the struie will be on winter greens. its just so the members can have a hack around. if they could they would just shut both.

 

[Dodger]

if its frosty the championship course closes and the struie will be on winter greens. its just so the members can have a hack around. if they could they would just shut both.

Can't understand why one is open and the other isn't tho....even with winters on?

No consistency anywhere is seems.Plenty courses with the same type of land,greens etc at Dornoch stay fully open,plenty more shut fully...baffling.

 

[patricks148]

Can't understand why one is open and the other isn't tho....even with winters on?

No consistency anywhere is seems.Plenty courses with the same type of land,greens etc at Dornoch stay fully open,plenty more shut fully...baffling.

the championship is either full greens or closed, i suppose they have the other course and if you must play its here. only time i've played the struie on temps is when everywhere esle was still under 2 foot of snow. you wouldn't bother unless you were gagging for a game, which we were as we had snow for two months.

 

[richart]

Taken from Blackmoor website.

Temporary Greens

Blackmoor Golf Club course policy is that temporary greens will be used when there is a hard ground frost and until the ground has fully thawed. The greens will be reviewed throughout the day and brought back into play as soon as possible.

What happens to turf in frost conditions?

Frost on the grass leaf blades tells us that the water inside the leaves is frozen. Remember that 80+% of plant tissue is made up of water, the primary component of plant tissue. When this water is frozen, foot traffic on the turf causes the ice crystals in the cells to puncture the plant’s cell walls thus killing plant tissue.

When they are frozen, the leaves of the turf get easily bruised by players’ feet. After thawing, the affected turf turns black or brown and becomes sparse. The turf can often remain thin for long periods if damage occurs early in the winter. The fine turf on greens becomes more susceptible to disease and the putting surface becomes very uneven.

More long-term damage can be caused when play takes place as the turf is thawing after a prolonged freeze. Under these conditions the top surface of the turf may be soft, but the underlying soil can still be frozen. Root damage occurs easily from a shearing action as players’ feet move the soft top surface against the frozen sub soil.


The process of damage to the turf normally occurs in the following pattern

* Bruising and damage to the leaf.
* Loss of turf colour.
* Severing of grass roots.
* Compaction of the soil.
* Thinning of the swards.

Course Policies

There is a split amongst courses whereby some will use temporary greens to avoid this potential damage whilst others allow play regardless of frost.

Those courses, which allow play to the main greens under these conditions consider the damage they receive to be manageable.

They take into consideration:

* Management of grass species in their greens
* The amount of play through the winter
* The extent to which cold and frosty conditions put the membership off playing, the reduced number of rounds on affected days causing less damage
* The restriction of visitors on certain days especially at the weekend to reduce traffic
* The size of their greens and the area for legal pin placements.

Blackmoor’s decision to use a temporary greens policy has been taken as part of the management plan to promote Browntop Bent sward greens (instead of Poa Annua). Browntop Bent is the most desirable and best- suited grass to the conditions faced at Blackmoor golf club.

Using temporary greens in the winter means that efforts in the growing season (overseeding) have a much higher success rate therefore speeding up the grass species change-over and reaching the goal sooner. As you can see above from the effects of playing on greens when they are frozen it is the complete opposite of our plan to encourage new growth. So until we have reached the overwhelming dominance of the better grasses we must continue to use this policy.

Browntop Bent characteristics:

Good all year round colour

Broad flat leaf blade (good green speed)

Low fertility requirements (cost)

Resistant to most diseases

Lower disruptive maintenance requirements and costs

Drought tolerant


Poa Annua Characteristics

Bad colour out of growing season

Soft lush leaf blade

Shallow rooting

Prone to diseases

High maintenance requirements

High maintenance costs

Not drought tolerant


Hope it is of interest.

 

[thecraw]

The course in my village keep the greens on all year round and come the summer they also have the fastest greens in the county. Makes me wonder about the validity of the winter green theorists!

 

[stevek1969]

We play full greens all year round doesn't matter if there frozen. The theroy is that is doesn't cause any damage but when they start to thaw you can get root damage if they thaw about a 1/2 inch and the top is soft and they have people walking on them.

 

[thecraw]

Great read Richart.

 

[Mungoscorner]

Absolute pish is my take on it.The better course's in my area play proper greens all year regardless of conditions in winter,and they are the best greens to play on in summer,any damage caused by frost is temporary.The greens still need cutting regularly even in mid winter,which shows how resilient the grass is.