Shrine for the career criminal

[IanM]

...playing devil's advocate. If Mr Osborn-Brooks is sorry about what has happened - that he did not wish Henry Vincent dead - would that change anything?

Why play devil's advocate?

I would hope in many cases the family and friends of the dead man would be sufficiently embarrassed about the reasons why he was there to not lay flowers in the vicinity. But that is a forlorn hope in this case.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Mr Osborn-Brook gave his permission to have the flowers taken down so there is no question and I don't like this floral display being referred to as a shrine as it has no religious significance.

I am 100% with you on this

And on my what-if on Mr Osborn-Brook - that was simply to see whether our views are based upon our own feelings as individuals about such criminal acts and outcomes, as opposed to consideration and respect of the feelings of the individual(s) against whom a criminal act is perpetrated. Because in other circumstances these could conflict.

As said at the outset. I myself find the 'shrine', and all associated with it, grim and grotesque.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Not talking sympathy - just wondering who would be offended by the shrine if Mr Osborn-Brook was not. Would his wishes take precedence over the feelings of everyone else.

Neighbours, friends, relatives, any other law abiding citizens

 

[Deleted member 1418]

BBC News reporting that the dead criminal's friends/ family have been back putting the tributes back-up!

Must be tough for the local residents.

Even worse for Mr Osborn-Brooks not being able to be in his own home.

IMO these 'tributes' should be taken down, and the Police should be telling the friends/family not to come back. But no doubt they'll complain about their human rights!

 

[chrisd]

This, all day long ^^^^^^^^

 

[Robster59]

They're also putting these (HAH!) "tributes" on someone elses property. But you can bet that they would provide severe intimidation to him protesting if he wanted them taking down. This is why I said I could see it escalating.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

In this instance, I feel it's obvious intimidation.
As far as the trend for "shrines", I dont like them full stop. Even more so when it's on someone elses private property.
I see on the news the person the police wanted to talk to in conjunction with this event, had his van found dumped and burnt out in a certain part of Kent. An area known for certain elements of society.

I remember years back driving down this particular lane, and becasue I wouldnt stop for a gang of "young men" my van was subject to a hail of half bricks stored and placed in readiness.
At that time, the Police very very rarely went there.

 

[Tashyboy]

He is low life scum who preyed on the elderly. A quick look on google pictures at the physical state that some of the elderly have been left in should ensure that no one sheds a tear for him. He should have no " shrine".
whether he is a traveller or not is irrelevant, he was scum.

 

[Hobbit]

Have the Police block the road, then remove the shrine and then have a Police presence there till tempers cool. Anyone that wants to argue the toss, in the cell and then before a magistrate and 15 days calling off. Harsh but a message needs to be sent out The scum are winning ownership of the streets, and its about time an effort was made to win them back.

 

[Tashyboy]

Have the Police block the road, then remove the shrine and then have a Police presence there till tempers cool. Anyone that wants to argue the toss, in the cell and then before a magistrate and 15 days calling off. Harsh but a message needs to be sent out The scum are winning ownership of the streets, and its about time an effort was made to win them back.

Hobbit for primeminister.^^^

Then we can start a topic saying how bad Hobbit is doin on this forum 😁

 

[Deleted member 18645]

Hobbit for primeminister.^^^

Then we can start a topic saying how bad Hobbit is doin on this forum 

I'd vote for him but he's a foreigner who keeps telling us how hot it is on his home course ..... ;-) Spot on with the post though Hobby!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Reflecting on this - I think I'd just leave the flowers where they are - as much as I personally might find that very difficult or gross...

My reasoning is based on principles that, unfortunately, I suspect that I would get ridiculed over were I to be more more explicit. So I won't be.

But if - as is possible or even likely - removal of the 'tributes' exacerbates the situation, then that to my mind is to no-ones benefit; and would not support any healing between the deceased man's family and community, and Mr Osborn-Brook and the local community. And some healing there has to be.

 

[bobmac]

Reflecting on this - I think I'd just leave the flowers where they are - as much as I personally might find that very difficult or gross...

My reasoning is based on principles that, unfortunately, I suspect that I would get ridiculed over were I to be more more explicit. So I won't be.

But if - as is possible or even likely - removal of the 'tributes' exacerbates the situation, then that to my mind is to no-ones benefit; and would not support any healing between the deceased man's family and community, and Mr Osborn-Brook and the local community. And some healing there has to be.

Firstly, if the criminal is part of a large traveller family then I would argue that they are not part of the community.
Secondly, the person who owns the fence where the flowers are placed does not want them on his fence.
Thirdly, any possible rifts that need to be healed were caused by the criminal and so it's his families' responsibility to start that process but instead they have issued death threats for revenge against the victim.
Lastly, the community has done nothing wrong, why should it have to 'turn the other cheek' to heal a rift caused by someone who was outside their community?

 

[Beezerk]

Lastly, the community has done nothing wrong, why should it have to 'turn the other cheek' to heal a rift caused by someone who was outside their community?

That's travellers for you though, cause absolute chaos and destruction wherever they go and leave you behind to pick up the pieces.
Although it leaves a huge bad taste in my mouth, I'd be tempted to let them have their couple of days of grieving (or winding the up the community depending on how you view it) and let them bugger off.
Police should have done more though, for the real victim to be forced out of his home and have death threats seems a failure on their part.

 

[spongebob59]

From what I remember there are 2 permanent sites for travellers in the area, so they won't bugger off.

Probably why the guy who was burgled will never be able to return safely.

 

[Beezerk]

From what I remember there are 2 permanent sites for travellers in the area, so they won't bugger off.

Hmm, didn't know that.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If they want a shrine, have one in their home, not the place where he traumatised an elderly couple. Those poor people have enough to deal with without seeing tributes to the man who terrified them outside their window.

I'm with Hobbit on this, post a copper there for a couple of days to move things along.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's travellers for you though, cause absolute chaos and destruction wherever they go and leave you behind to pick up the pieces.
Although it leaves a huge bad taste in my mouth, I'd be tempted to let them have their couple of days of grieving (or winding the up the community depending on how you view it) and let them bugger off.
Police should have done more though, for the real victim to be forced out of his home and have death threats seems a failure on their part.

This for me is the bottom line that at least forms the basis for things calming down. The community feeling of having been violated is painful and very upsetting, but it is not a case of the community having to 'turn the the cheek' - it is more to do with the community appreciating and accepting that the right thing to do may not be what it wants to do at this highly emotional time.

 

[bobmac]

it is more to do with the community appreciating and accepting that the right thing to do may not be what it wants to do at this highly emotional time.

Why should the community have to do the right thing and who decides what the right thing is?

The right thing in my opinion would be the people making death threats should be arrested and the police should make life for the rest of their community 'uncomfortable' until they move on.

 

[MegaSteve]

Methinks its the family of the 'violator' that need to be taking a long hard look at themselves...
And, find a way of showing some remorse for the hurt the actions a member of their family has caused...


Currently they appear hell bent on causing only further harm and hurt...