Should we get rid???

bobmac

bobmac

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Following on from HTL's thread about hole lengths, my question is 'should we get rid of PAR'?

I wrote about this months ago.
When people see a hole that is 250 yd par 3, they all think tough hole. If they take a 4 they think, well, it was a tough hole. If it was a par 4, they would think easy hole.If they then took a 4, they would think it was a waste of a good birdie chance.
If the hole didn't have a par figure on it, how would you play it?
At the end of the day, it's how many times you hit it that counts, not how many under (or over) par you are.
To me, if I can reach it in 1 its a par 3
reach it in 2, par 4 and 3, a par 5. Simple.
It is especially relevent at 480yds ish.
Does it really matter what the par of the hole is?
You still want to take as few shots as you can on it. A 4 is still a 4, whether its a birdie or a par.
What do you think would happen if the figures of par were done away with and just had the yardage for each hole?
You would need a SSS for the course so maybe 5500-6000 could be 70, 6000-6500 could be 71 and so on.
You would also have to do away with stableford comps, but in my opinion, that wouldn't be a bad thing lol. Never enjoyed them.
So, you are on a strange course and the first tee marker only says the hole is 480 yds long.
How would you play it?
 
Interesting suggestion but not one I can see meeting with universal approval. Each hole will still need an SI or how do you give/receive shots in matches and despite your dislike stableford remains the most common form of competition around the country.

I can see where you are coming from. Our opener is 223 off the whites with a pond short left, trees right and a slope and two bunkers greenside. A four is acceptable in any competition and a 3 is a bonus. Regarding your 480 yarder that is technically a par 5 for members and I couldn't get there in two very often unless we had dry running fairways and possible a tailwind. I guess it would depend on th nature of the hole and how much trouble there was off the tee and more importantly with he second shot. If there was water or deep bunkers short then for me the risks would be too great in competitive play and I'd look to leave a good yardage in and play for my 5. I may have a punt in a friendly or in a match though.
 
I said soemthing similar Bob a while back when there was another debate about course management I think.

I said that I never understood why anyone would say "I'll play this par 4 as a 5 because I've got a shot!"

As Bob said the objective is surely to get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible so that should be the plan for the hole not becuase of the fact you get a shot.
 
No we shouldn't get rid of par - just ignore it when playing medals. As you say, you need it for Stableford which is a very common format. But in Medal it doesn't matter what the par is, just what your total is at the end relative to everyone elses. SSS or CSS sorts out the handicap so par is irrelevent.

A 480 yarder?
I would expect to get on or close in 2 leaving a chip and a putt for a 4 but would not be unhappy walking away with a 5.

How I would play it would depend on lots of things but assuming a Driver's not going to get me into too much trouble then I'd bash that. Then it obviously depends on how far the 2nd shot is. If I'm within 220 yards I'll have a go depending on hazards in front of the green.
 
Nope.

Do away with par, and the next thing you'll want is easy to hit long irons - something taht's a bit of a hybrid between a wood and an iron.

And if that's the case you'll want to change everything. And one day women will be allowed on the course, and all sorts of havoc will ensue.

Par is still important. If you're looking at a course of 6000 yds and it's a par 72,you know you'll have a couple of birdie opportunities. If it's a par 68 you know they'll be a few tough holes.

And that's really what the game is all about. Testing yourself against the standards of the course, and then bragging about it in the bar afterwards.

Ok so you don't like stableford. Or matchplay, maybe. But just playing strokeplay every time would eventually bore even the most enthusiastic hacker out there.

It's par that gives us the chance to play against any stsndard of opposition. Do away with it, and you've changed the game for the worse.

In your example I play a 480 opener with a stroke, so as a par 5. 3w off the tee, 5w 2nd, and hopefully something small onto the green before 2 putting for a net 4 and 2 points.

But if it's the 15th and I'm 2 points behind Smiffy and there's a cheeky pound on the game, I'll take my driver, and if I'm fortuate enough to connect, I'll maybe take my 3w to see if I can get close enough to chip and putt for a 3 pointer.

Yes you could instigate a new system of scoring to do the same job, but it would have to be par in everything but name anyway.
 
I wasn't seriously suggesting we get rid of par altogether.
I just wanted to know if the figure on the tee box should affect the way you play the hole.
 
I wasn't seriously suggesting we get rid of par altogether.
I just wanted to know if the figure on the tee box should affect the way you play the hole.
Click to expand...

On the tee box it doesn't. On the card pre round it helps with giving a little insight, and it's needed for scoring.

But course management is a totally different subject. It has nothing to do with any numbers. Even the yardage is irrelevant on it's own.

Let's say I can hit my driver 280 yards ( Stop laughing - this is pretend :mad: )

The hole is 275 yards to the middle of the green, and the pin is on the back.

Take driver ?

Does your game plan change once you see the pond in front of the green ?
 
he he... i like this debate.

what about instead of par, holes are still given a SI difficulty rating and if you're a higher handicapper then you still get shots on the harder holes. Doesn't need to relate to par at all.

Thing is though, par is part and parcel of the game. When someone describes a hole to you they'll always tell you what par it is first... "It was a long par 3 with a pond in front of the green... blah blah blah" or "i played the short par 4 15th really well... blah blah blah."

It's part of golf and will never go away, but it's fun talking about if it wasn't there.
 
I do feel that when watching the RC, the notion of par is a bit redundant. Oh, here's Tiger putting for par. Er, no, he is putting for a 4. To beat him, someone needs a 3, not a birdie. Most of the par 5's are going to be hit in 2, and 4 is a reasonable score on those holes. A par 5 will lose the hole most of the time, so par is an irrelevant number in matchplay.
 
I thought you were crazy until you mentioned getting rid of stablefords but now I am coming round to the idea.

I think you would still have an expectation of the hole (ie I normally take 4 here) and I think it would help you shoot better scores, as you would not have a running tally in your head therefore putting pressure on yourself.
 
he he... i like this debate.

what about instead of par, holes are still given a SI difficulty rating and if you're a higher handicapper then you still get shots on the harder holes. Doesn't need to relate to par at all.
Click to expand...

how about you still get the shots but choose where to take them.

tbh the length of a hole is pretty irrelevant unless the green is in range, distance only really becomes of major importance when it is near enough to hit. what is more important is what is between you and the hole.

but on any 480, I would hope to be on in three, wayward shots permitting (get too many of those and a 480 can be a 580)
 
One of the reasons I love matchplay is because you dont have to consider the holes par, just play it as good as the other guy or better.

Losing stablefords wouldnt upset me, but I think there may be the odd golfer who would not like it. :rolleyes:

I can see the sense of keeping a rating for the course and individual holes, but its not needed as a focus for play in most formats, but you can be sure it will fill the minds of many on every hole they play. (myself included on occasions, though I try not to) ;)
 
Sometimes you have to plan to take more, to take less.
Click to expand...

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you.....

The most sagacious man in the world.

Now THAT is a gem.

I play a few long par fours as fives, not because I get a shot, but because I don't want to either 1) ruin my scorecard trying too hard or 2) get depressed about making a 6 on a par 4. I don't even think about the S.I.

In medal, I try just to think about each hole at a time. If I play our longest par 4 as a par five and make 6, I'm trying to make a 5 at the next hole (which is a par 5). 2 over for 2 long holes is fine for me.

In matchplay par is irrelevant. I guess you need it for stableford (which I like b.t.w.)...so it needs to stay.

As for the O.P. if I step up and see par 4 450+ yards, I think about playing less aggressive, not more.
 
I agree that I'm playing to the percentages first and anything else is a bonus. If I can get on our SI one and 2 in two it will be because I've struck perfect drives and decent seconds. Any problem with the drive and the holes instantly become par 5's. I've had too many 6's and 7's by believing I could when my game and brain are both saying NO!

If I play conservatively on any holes and chip and putt I tend to see it as a bonus rather than a reward for my prudence. In matchplay I have been accused of lacking the killer instinct and perhaps I go for too many shots in this format and maybe my steady eddie approach may be more rewarding
 
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