Should we do away with "numbered" irons?

[Airlie_Andy]

Yep - this is exactly what I said above. Could label them A - G, or 101 - 109, the label is irrelevant, it's the performance of each club in your bag as compared to all the others - so why not stick with the current labels?

Because the label on the club is exactly the same but what it actually means is completely different? Some people just buy off the shelf so if you have a hybrid of say 21 degrees for example and then decide to change your irons but the loft of the new 4 iron is now 21 degrees as well as opposed to the 24 degrees of your old set your now out of sync. (All numbers were entirely made up in my head).

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Because the label on the club is exactly the same but what it actually means is completely different? Some people just buy off the shelf so if you have a hybrid of say 21 degrees for example and then decide to change your irons but the loft of the new 4 iron is now 21 degrees as well as opposed to the 24 degrees of your old set your now out of sync. (All numbers were entirely made up in my head).

I accept that is a possibility, and in my original post (see above) I said that the CG16 system is a good one - loft and number. I don't think getting rid of numbering is necessary.

Plus, loft information is easily obtained, so if you want a 24 degree 4 iron, look up the loft of the sets you're considering and choose one that suits your needs. Granted, stamping lofts on the clubs themselves makes that easier, but I don't see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water and get rid of numbering altogether.

 

[TheJezster]

Surely it would make more sense to simply create a ruling, or legislation which dictates that all new clubs produced must have a uniformed range of lofts per club.

ie: 6 iron must be between 28 - 30 degrees (or whatever it will be). That way, all club manufacturers have to adhere to that standard so we all know where we stand. Simple really.

This would instantly stop the 20+ yards longer nonsense that happens these days too.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Surely it would make more sense to simply create a ruling, or legislation which dictates that all new clubs produced must have a uniformed range of lofts per club.

ie: 6 iron must be between 28 - 30 degrees (or whatever it will be). That way, all club manufacturers have to adhere to that standard so we all know where we stand. Simple really.

This would instantly stop the 20+ yards longer nonsense that happens these days too.

That is surely completely unnecessary? Are people really that worried that someone might hit their strong 7 iron further than their regular loft 7 iron? Honestly does it matter?

The whole distance fixation baffles me, both on the side of people that lie about how far they hit it, and those that object to anyone higher than single digits saying they hit it a long way.

 

[bladeplayer]

Because the label on the club is exactly the same but what it actually means is completely different? Some people just buy off the shelf so if you have a hybrid of say 21 degrees for example and then decide to change your irons but the loft of the new 4 iron is now 21 degrees as well as opposed to the 24 degrees of your old set your now out of sync. (All numbers were entirely made up in my head).

Completely is a small bit of an exaggeration tho is it not .. ?
I totally see the point you are making and i can see what you are talking about loft of the 4 iron v the hybrid ,

IMO someone is buying the hybrid because they cant hit the low iron & its nothing to do with loft its ability .. so even if they are both 21*they will differ greatly ..

Just a non technical hackers opinion tho

 

[stevie_r]

Surely it would make more sense to simply create a ruling, or legislation which dictates that all new clubs produced must have a uniformed range of lofts per club.

ie: 6 iron must be between 28 - 30 degrees (or whatever it will be). That way, all club manufacturers have to adhere to that standard so we all know where we stand. Simple really.

This would instantly stop the 20+ yards longer nonsense that happens these days too.

Totally unnecessary IMO, it doesn't matter a jot what it says on the bottom as long as you have a good idea how far it goes.

 

[Airlie_Andy]

That is surely completely unnecessary? Are people really that worried that someone might hit their strong 7 iron further than their regular loft 7 iron? Honestly does it matter?

The whole distance fixation baffles me, both on the side of people that lie about how far they hit it, and those that object to anyone higher than single digits saying they hit it a long way.

This has nothing to do with distance in terms of hitting it further but is more a discussion around trying to standardise the industry where possible. For instance would you be happy to buy a size 10 shoe online then when it arrives you discover that particular manufacturer uses the label of 10 for a size thats 2 inches smaller? I'm not interested in claiming I've got bigger feet I'm more interested in a label actually having some meaning across the industry.

Actually I'm not really that bothered I was just putting it out there for discussion.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

This has nothing to do with distance in terms of hitting it further but is more a discussion around trying to standardise the industry where possible. For instance would you be happy to buy a size 10 shoe online then when it arrives you discover that particular manufacturer uses the label of 10 for a size thats 2 inches smaller? I'm not interested in claiming I've got bigger feet I'm more interested in a label actually having some meaning across the industry.

Actually I'm not really that bothered I was just putting it out there for discussion.

To go along with your analogy, I'd buy a shoe that fitted. I wouldn't buy a shoe online for exactly that reason - but if I did, I would first check the dimensions of that shoe against the dimensions of a shoe I already own and fits well to try and make sure it would roughly be the right size. If on receipt of the shoe, it turned out not to be quite right, I'd return it.

I totally get where you're coming from, I just don't think there's any need for standardisation in the case of golf clubs. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. Some people might want a bigger gap between lofts, or the same gap and a stronger pitching wedge with then extra wedges to fill the gap at the top. I appreciate that certain manufacturers distance claims are tiresome, but if they weren't allowed to play with loft, they'd play with weighting or shaft length or something else that had the same effect.

I still think the Cleveland CG16 approach is good - club number and loft. Deals with the point you're raising I think without a huge change in the numbering convention.

 

[Airlie_Andy]

To go along with your analogy, I'd buy a shoe that fitted. I wouldn't buy a shoe online for exactly that reason - but if I did, I would first check the dimensions of that shoe against the dimensions of a shoe I already own and fits well to try and make sure it would roughly be the right size. If on receipt of the shoe, it turned out not to be quite right, I'd return it.

I totally get where you're coming from, I just don't think there's any need for standardisation in the case of golf clubs. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. Some people might want a bigger gap between lofts, or the same gap and a stronger pitching wedge with then extra wedges to fill the gap at the top. I appreciate that certain manufacturers distance claims are tiresome, but if they weren't allowed to play with loft, they'd play with weighting or shaft length or something else that had the same effect.

I still think the Cleveland CG16 approach is good - club number and loft. Deals with the point you're raising I think without a huge change in the numbering convention.

You'd be amazed how many golfers out there have no idea that clubs have different lofts across manufacturers let alone even within the same brand. So those people would just buy the shoe expecting it to be like there current size 10. I do agree that keeping the number and adding the loft may be the best comprise though.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

You'd be amazed how many golfers out there have no idea that clubs have different lofts across manufacturers let alone even within the same brand. So those people would just buy the shoe expecting it to be like there current size 10. I do agree that keeping the number and adding the loft may be the best comprise though.

Good point on people not knowing their lofts. I suppose that is one way that manufacturers seek to fool the unsuspecting distance obsessed golfer!

 

[CMAC]

the numbers arent rigid, you need something to tell them apart, if not numbers then name them after all your girlfriends

 

[Foxholer]

Ahh ok... can be or is?

'Can be' as in 'shaft producers are able to ..' - so generally 'is'

I used to have a spreadsheet of the where shafts fitted on the Rifle scale - a frequency based one - for the various lengths. Short shafts of the same 'flex' have a higher cps; the stiffer the shaft, for it's length, the higher the cps.

 

[Break90]

I'm happy to stick with my numbered irons to be honest, i know pretty accurately how far each one goes if i swing it right.

more interested in how straight i hit them than how far

 

[Twin Lakes]

I think it's quite a good idea.

 

[Duckster]

Numbers are fine for most people, you'll get used to how far you hit and play accordingly. I suppose you could re-name them "welly bomber" through to "typhoon smasher" with an "Over 300 yards Forum Distance" driver but would it really make much difference?

Like people going on about the loft, honestly can most people say what loft all their clubs are? And if they can, are they Pro's playing on tour?

 

[garyinderry]

not a fan of this idea! I like clean looking irons. they do no need two numbers on the sole or anywhere on the head in fact.


print it on the butt of the grip if absolutely necessary. keep it out of view!

 

[CMAC]

not a fan of this idea! I like clean looking irons. they do no need two numbers on the sole or anywhere on the head in fact.


print it on the butt of the grip if absolutely necessary. keep it out of view!

so you can lift out at least 5 clubs every shot to find the right one:rofl: yeah that'll speed up play

 

[MashieNiblick]

Not for me.

As someone said, loft isn't everything. As I understand it there isn't even a standard way of measuring it. How accurate is it any way?

On a more practical front it is much easier for most players to remember whether 150 yards is a 6 or a 7 than whether its a 31 or a 35 or whatever. It's a much more intuitive process, that's why it is so well established.

Finally to answer this-

What exactly is the benefit of calling it a 6 iron when 6 irons can vary so much?

It's called a 6 iron so I know it's the one between my 5 iron and my 7 iron.

Interesting discussion though.

 

[garyinderry]

so you can lift out at least 5 clubs every shot to find the right one:rofl: yeah that'll speed up play

I can tell my irons apart without looking at the soles !

traditional numbering please!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Does it matter? Everyone has a different shaft, swing speed etc and there is no uniformity regarding loft from maker to maker. As long as I know what I hit each club for my swing then I don't care if my club says 7 and someone else is hitting 8. Providing it goes where I want it to I am not hung up what it says on the bottom