Should software prevent a tee booking?

[IanMcC]

Today I booked a dozen or so Mixed Opens for my wife, myself and another couple. That's the Summer sorted. Thought I would share what happened with one of them. At this particular website you could only book one 2 ball at a time, not the complete 4 ball. I booked me and the wife in, and then scurried back in to the website to book our partners. Try as I might, it would not accept the booking. Turns out the software was preventing the booking. The maximum Ladies handicap for the comp is 36. My friend plays off of 36.6, or 37. As CDH numbers seemed to be the driving force on this particular software, I could not book online. Tried phoning. No one answered. Left a message, then completed the booking using another lady with a handicap inside the tolerance.
The Secretary phoned back. He was unable to manually change the booking to a 37 handicapper. I obviously said that my friend would only play off of 36 on the day. He stated that he would have to take our problem to his Committee, and that he would ring back with the outcome. I can see us not playing there at all, which would be a shame.
Any of you high handicapper types came across anything similar, or would anyone like to speculate on the outcome? In these days of 54.0 max handicap, it all seems rather outdated.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Today I booked a dozen or so Mixed Opens for my wife, myself and another couple. That's the Summer sorted. Thought I would share what happened with one of them. At this particular website you could only book one 2 ball at a time, not the complete 4 ball. I booked me and the wife in, and then scurried back in to the website to book our partners. Try as I might, it would not accept the booking. Turns out the software was preventing the booking. The maximum Ladies handicap for the comp is 36. My friend plays off of 36.6, or 37. As CDH numbers seemed to be the driving force on this particular software, I could not book online. Tried phoning. No one answered. Left a message, then completed the booking using another lady with a handicap inside the tolerance.
The Secretary phoned back. He was unable to manually change the booking to a 37 handicapper. I obviously said that my friend would only play off of 36 on the day. He stated that he would have to take our problem to his Committee, and that he would ring back with the outcome. I can see us not playing there at all, which would be a shame.
Any of you high handicapper types came across anything similar, or would anyone like to speculate on the outcome? In these days of 54.0 max handicap, it all seems rather outdated.

Not just outdated but discriminatory - unless there was a handicap limit for the competition - as there often will be for Opens

 

[duncan mackie]

Not just outdated but discriminatory - unless there was a handicap limit for the competition - as there often will be for Opens

There was a limit, as stated in the original post.

Dealing with that specific issue - yes. You programme the software to the entry criteria and it is simply doing what you have decided to do.
If the criteria was a maximum stroke allowance of 36, then you programme it that way. The wording given suggests the programming has been done in line with the intentions.

That the matter is being referred suggests that they may have written their entry rules differently from their intentions, in which case they should of course amend the way they have set up the software as well as rewriting their entry requirements...

Whether there should be any restrictions is, of course, completely seperate issue.

 

[IanMcC]

The handicap limit is 36 for ladies, but my friend is more than happy to play to that.
I personally question handicap limits in general. I have removed them from all of our club board comps, and i am in the process of removing them from our Opens also.

 

[jim8flog]

When we set handicap limits players with a higher handicap are not allowed to enter and play off the lower the handicap


If we want players with higher handicaps to play we set a higher handicap limit.

The reasoning behind handicap limits is simple it is to retain some sort of 'integrity' to the competition.Personally I have played in a lot of comps limited to 8 handicap.

Previously our Men's Open was limited to 20.4 but we have reflected current trends towards allowing higher handicaps in and increased it to 28.4 (I wanted 27.4).

 

[IanMcC]

When we set handicap limits players with a higher handicap are not allowed to enter and play off the lower the handicap


If we want players with higher handicaps to play we set a higher handicap limit.

The reasoning behind handicap limits is simple it is to retain some sort of 'integrity' to the competition.Personally I have played in a lot of comps limited to 8 handicap.

Previously our Men's Open was limited to 20.4 but we have reflected current trends towards allowing higher handicaps in and increased it to 28.4 (I wanted 27.4).

Dont take this personally, Jim, but rarely have I read anything so stuck up and pompous regarding my sport in my lifetime.
Lets break it down, shall we?

If we want players with higher handicaps to play we set a higher handicap limit.
Who made you God? I thought the idea of Open Comps was to attract new people to your club.

The reasoning behind handicap limits is simple it is to retain some sort of 'integrity' to the competition.
This is very close to accusing high handicappers of cheating. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Personally I have played in a lot of comps limited to 8 handicap.
...and your point is, caller? Or is it just a wee boast to boost someones ego? How many of those comps have been Mixed Opens, I wonder?

Previously our Men's Open was limited to 20.4 but we have reflected current trends towards allowing higher handicaps in and increased it to 28.4 (I wanted 27.4)
That must have broken your little heart. Handicaps are earned and adjusted via a tried and tested formulaic system, be it CONGU or WHS. Why should a biased Committee expel or penalise approximately half of the potential entrants.

It is responses like this that drag our game right back to the dark ages, in my insignificant opinion.
Extremely sad and disappointed at reading this on this forum. Maybe i just dont belong here.

 

[RangeMonkey]

The reasoning behind handicap limits is simple it is to retain some sort of 'integrity' to the competition.

I‘m, sorry, exactly what kind of integrity do I lack, due to being a high-handicapper?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Dont take this personally, Jim, but rarely have I read anything so stuck up and pompous regarding my sport in my lifetime.
Lets break it down, shall we?

If we want players with higher handicaps to play we set a higher handicap limit.
Who made you God? I thought the idea of Open Comps was to attract new people to your club.

The reasoning behind handicap limits is simple it is to retain some sort of 'integrity' to the competition.
This is very close to accusing high handicappers of cheating. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Personally I have played in a lot of comps limited to 8 handicap.
...and your point is, caller? Or is it just a wee boast to boost someones ego? How many of those comps have been Mixed Opens, I wonder?

Previously our Men's Open was limited to 20.4 but we have reflected current trends towards allowing higher handicaps in and increased it to 28.4 (I wanted 27.4)
That must have broken your little heart. Handicaps are earned and adjusted via a tried and tested formulaic system, be it CONGU or WHS. Why should a biased Committee expel or penalise approximately half of the potential entrants.

It is responses like this that drag our game right back to the dark ages, in my insignificant opinion.
Extremely sad and disappointed at reading this on this forum. Maybe i just dont belong here.

Opens aren’t just for attracting people to the club

Many Opens are handicap limited due to the competition when it was first set up with many of them also having a scratch prize

Many clubs still have handicap limits in certain comps - doesn’t make it wrong. Sometimes it’s good to see the Comp won by someone playing the best golf

 

[jim8flog]

I‘m, sorry, exactly what kind of integrity do I lack, due to being a high-handicapper?

Dont take this personally, Jim, but rarely have I read anything so stuck up and pompous regarding my sport in my lifetime.
Lets break it down, shall we?

If we want players with higher handicaps to play we set a higher handicap limit.
Who made you God? I thought the idea of Open Comps was to attract new people to your club.

The reasoning behind handicap limits is simple it is to retain some sort of 'integrity' to the competition.
This is very close to accusing high handicappers of cheating. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Personally I have played in a lot of comps limited to 8 handicap.
...and your point is, caller? Or is it just a wee boast to boost someones ego? How many of those comps have been Mixed Opens, I wonder?

Previously our Men's Open was limited to 20.4 but we have reflected current trends towards allowing higher handicaps in and increased it to 28.4 (I wanted 27.4)
That must have broken your little heart. Handicaps are earned and adjusted via a tried and tested formulaic system, be it CONGU or WHS. Why should a biased Committee expel or penalise approximately half of the potential entrants.

It is responses like this that drag our game right back to the dark ages, in my insignificant opinion.
Extremely sad and disappointed at reading this on this forum. Maybe i just dont belong here.

If you re read the post the word integrity was put in brackets as the best word I could think of at the time. It is does not mean (as some seem to be interpreting it) that I think players cheat. When I went to school in my English lessons I was taught that by putting a word in brackets you did not mean that exact word.


For the record we do not have any comps where the handicap is set at a low limit the ones where I played in were at other clubs and were oversubscribed even with a low limit.

The handicap limit and playing limit is a a recommendation bought in by either Congu or England golf when the new handicap limits. Ie A player is entiitled to play off their full handicap and should not have to play off a lower handicap other than those set by CONGU. When I posed the question on this site about what other clubs are doing a lot of players said there clubs do the same as is clearly obvious in the OP.

The change to our Open handicap limits was to attract more players at the club although this may mean we have a lot of of lower handicaps drop out. Simple fact when we decreased our our handicap limit from 28 to 20 we saw a notable increase in the number of low handicap entrants.

The reasoning behind 27.4 is simple.There are a lot of people clinging on to the concept of a 28 handicap without any rhyme or reason behind that number in the modern handicapping times. My view of a limit of 27 is based upon the stroke indexes at our club and where players will receive 2 shots.

 

[jim8flog]

With regard to the OP

I have just scanned the Mixed Open events for Dorset on Golf Empire

There only two mixed events that did not have handicap limits and there were no pairs (either mixed or mens ) that did not have handicap limits.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My club used to impose a handicap limit for our most prestigious scratch competition (we might still do - I'm not sure). Why did we do that? Well it was a Surrey Order of Merit qualifier and we wanted to give as many Cat 1 players as possible the opportunity to enter - thereby maintaining it's 'integrity' as a low handicap OoM qualifier.

We wanted all the better players who were challenging in the OoM the opportunity to complete against each other - yes that might seem that we were excluding others handicappers able to score low on a good day from having a chance - but the truth is we always wanted to attract the highest calibre field possible for this one specific competition, as that was good for the prestige of both the competition and the club.

So I do get the point of the poster referring to "protecting the 'integrity' of the competition" I don't read that as a criticism, slight, or dismissal of higher handicap players in any way whatsoever. More - it's like having measures in place to ensure the integrity in respect of of the cleanliness of a 'clean room' as might be required for medical or IT purposes.

 

[chellie]

I've checked in Lancashire and the first five I looked at have limits. Two of them do have high limits though for men and women.

 

[IanMcC]

As a follow up to this, the golf club phoned me back this week, and admitted that their entry policy was incorrect, and out of kilter with other clubs in the area. They have amended the software to allow any handicap to enter, provided that they only claim 36. Sense prevails, something that seldom can be said amongst the fraternity on here who don't know the difference between inverted commas and brackets, for example.