Short legs = One Plane

[Maninblack4612]

I met my mate & fellow forummer, Jensen, at the range today. Like me, he's a follower of Jim "One Plane v Two Plane" Hardy & is a decidedly "one plane" swinger, that is to say that, at the top, the arms & shoulders are on the same plane. A two planer, on the other hand, will have his arms much higher than the shoulders at the top. Matt Kuchar & Blubber Watson illustrate the difference quite nicely.

So Jensen says he's been experimenting with a two plane backswing & I had a look. He proceeded to produce what was a classic one plane swing with arms, if anything, just below the shoulder line. I laughed, because I knew what it would look like, having tried the same myself.

Speaking personally, I am convinced that my flat looking swing is caused by body shape. I'm 6' tall with an inside leg of 30½". If you imagine a tall person with very, very short legs they will set up to the ball quite uptight, especially if they have long arms and can't really do anything but swing flat. For the same reason I have to have my irons adjusted 3º flat, again because of the short legs.

So I guessed that old Jensen would be a similar body shape to me & I'm sure he won't mind me telling you that he's 5' 11" tall & has an inside leg of 30". This makes him, like me, a natural one plane swinger, can't do it any other way.

I have friends 6' 3" & 5' 7" tall & when we stand together, arms by our sides, mine are significantly closer to the ground than theirs.

Not the best body shape for golf, I think, but I enjoy it so much I'm not going to take up another sport at my time of life.

The lesson for both of us is, I think, dont take too much notice of anyone who says you swing too flat. I've been hearing this for over 50 years now & have eventually learned to ignore it.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I met my mate & fellow forummer, Jensen, at the range today. Like me, he's a follower of Jim "One Plane v Two Plane" Hardy & is a decidedly "one plane" swinger, that is to say that, at the top, the arms & shoulders are on the same plane. A two planer, on the other hand, will have his arms much higher than the shoulders at the top. Matt Kuchar & Blubber Watson illustrate the difference quite nicely.

So Jensen says he's been experimenting with a two plane backswing & I had a look. He proceeded to produce what was a classic one plane swing with arms, if anything, just below the shoulder line. I laughed, because I knew what it would look like, having tried the same myself.

Speaking personally, I am convinced that my flat looking swing is caused by body shape. I'm 6' tall with an inside leg of 30½". If you imagine a tall person with very, very short legs they will set up to the ball quite uptight, especially if they have long arms and can't really do anything but swing flat. For the same reason I have to have my irons adjusted 3º flat, again because of the short legs.

So I guessed that old Jensen would be a similar body shape to me & I'm sure he won't mind me telling you that he's 5' 11" tall & has an inside leg of 30". This makes him, like me, a natural one plane swinger, can't do it any other way.

I have friends 6' 3" & 5' 7" tall & when we stand together, arms by our sides, mine are significantly closer to the ground than theirs.

Not the best body shape for golf, I think, but I enjoy it so much I'm not going to take up another sport at my time of life.

The lesson for both of us is, I think, dont take too much notice of anyone who says you swing too flat. I've been hearing this for over 50 years now & have eventually learned to ignore it.

Why do you think your body shape is wrong for golf? ANY shape or size can be good at this game. Chris Wood v Ian Woosnam springs to mind.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Agreed although to be fair, there are not many at Woosnams height on the tour. It shows what a good player he was.

 

[Parsaregood]

Sorry to hit on you but really unless you're a machine it's impossible to keep a consistent plane (I.e be one plane) there is always a shift some more subtle than others but there is always a shift. Yes some have shoulders and left arm on the same inclined plane at the top of the backswing but i really wouldn't class a swing like this one plane. Body type and physical capability dictate how people swing a club, usually thicker chested people will have a more upright swing as they need to create space (nicklaus) is a great example. Basically go and see a pro who understands the swing and your capabilities to work on a technique that works best for you, it doesn't have to be pretty just functional and technically sound

 

[Maninblack4612]

Why do you think your body shape is wrong for golf? ANY shape or size can be good at this game. Chris Wood v Ian Woosnam springs to mind.

Chris Wood is an exception. Very few very tall players about.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Sorry to hit on you but really unless you're a machine it's impossible to keep a consistent plane (I.e be one plane) there is always a shift some more subtle than others but there is always a shift. Yes some have shoulders and left arm on the same inclined plane at the top of the backswing but i really wouldn't class a swing like this one plane. Body type and physical capability dictate how people swing a club, usually thicker chested people will have a more upright swing as they need to create space (nicklaus) is a great example. Basically go and see a pro who understands the swing and your capabilities to work on a technique that works best for you, it doesn't have to be pretty just functional and technically sound

Don't think you understand the term "One Plane". It refers to the position at the top, not how you get there. It is clearly outlined in Jim Hardy's "Plane Truth", where he explains that each type of swing requires a different set of fundamentals.

And I've had more lessons than hot dinners from Plane Truth qualified instructors & others (including Prince Andrew's coach, he said, dropping names). They've helped but I've gained more by getting to know my own swing & what makes it work. I'm a great believer in knowing your own swing & understanding where the bad shots come from.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Chris Wood is an exception. Very few very tall players about.

Sorry I disagree. Robert Karlsson is another example at about 6ft7 and there are numerous pros on tour these days around 6ft2/6ft3 and taller. Kuchar is 6ft4

 

[Maninblack4612]

Why do you think your body shape is wrong for golf? ANY shape or size can be good at this game. Chris Wood v Ian Woosnam springs to mind.

Because my natural swing is too narrow, flat & too much on the inside, as is Jensen's, as I'm sure he'd admit. This means that I'm constantly battling against what I want to do naturally. Other, more normally put together individuals don't need to make so many adjustments. No matter how long I practice the "proper" swing it never seems natural & I am constantly slipping back into old habits without noticing, resulting in shanks, flat hooks & massive pushes. I really envy the natural swingers.

 

[Parsaregood]

Don't think you understand the term "One Plane". It refers to the position at the top, not how you get there. It is clearly outlined in Jim Hardy's "Plane Truth", where he explains that each type of swing requires a different set of fundamentals.

And I've had more lessons than hot dinners from Plane Truth qualified instructors & others (including Prince Andrew's coach, he said, dropping names). They've helped but I've gained more by getting to know my own swing & what makes it work. I'm a great believer in knowing your own swing & understanding where the bad shots come from.

That's the thing it is not one plane hence I wouldn't call it that there is nothing to understand

 

[Maninblack4612]

Sorry I disagree. Robert Karlsson is another example at about 6ft7 and there are numerous pros on tour these days around 6ft2/6ft3 and taller. Kuchar is 6ft4

Bet he hasn't got a 30" inside leg! Have always been curious about Kuchar's. A pro I know went to the U. S. & spent some time with him. Forgot to ask him!

 

[Maninblack4612]

That's the thing it is not one plane hence I wouldn't call it that there is nothing to understand

If you read the book you'd understand that there is something to understand. Until I read it I could never understand why a lot of the instruction I read in magazines appeared to conflict, e.g. "Start the downswing by sliding the hips" "Start the downswing by turning the upper body hard towards the hole". It's because two different basic swing types are being described. It was the late John Jacobs who put Jim Hardy onto the concept of two swing types & actually rang Hardy up in the middle of the night to tell him he was right when it dawned on him. True story.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Bet he hasn't got a 30" inside leg! Have always been curious about Kuchar's. A pro I know went to the U. S. & spent some time with him. Forgot to ask him!

But I wouldn't call your body shape particularly unusual? I'm 6ft with a 31 inch inside leg so not too disimilar. My girlfriend thinks my body shape is hot, she might think the same about yours

 

[Parsaregood]

I don't think you thought about my post properly I am familiar with concept, however on the downswing there is always a swallowing of the shaft plane, sometimes very subtle but it's there. 90% of good players lower in the downswing and if you change the axis you simply can't swing on one plane

 

[Maninblack4612]

I don't think you thought about my post properly I am familiar with concept, however on the downswing there is always a swallowing of the shaft plane, sometimes very subtle but it's there. 90% of good players lower in the downswing and if you change the axis you simply can't swing on one plane

I don't think you thought about my post properly. The terms "One Plane" & "Two Plane", as coined by Jim Hardy refer SOLELY to where the arms are in relation to the shoulders AT THE TOP OF THE SWING ONLY. In his book, Hardy confirms that it is fine for the spine angle to increase i.e. the head to lower, during the downswing, but not for the opposite to happen. I agree with you that most good players do this. I try to do it too!

 

[One Planer]

I'm the same height as you but I have longish (think chimp) arms. 32" inside leg.

Still one plane swing.

 

[Parsaregood]

My point is why call something one plane when it clearly isn't, I know this is how it is referred to. Just my opinion that if you call something one plane then it should strictly be so. Iron byron is one plane. No human is.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I'm the same height as you but I have longish (think chimp) arms. 32" inside leg.

Still one plane swing.

Think it works better with long legs because you have to bend over more to allow the shoulders to turn on a steeper plane. Short of wearing built up heels I don't think there's anything I can do.

 

[Maninblack4612]

My point is why call something one plane when it clearly isn't, I know this is how it is referred to. Just my opinion that if you call something one plane then it should strictly be so. Iron byron is one plane. No human is.

I give up!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

My girlfriend thinks my body shape is hot, she might think the same about yours

Just choked on a sandwich reading this
🤢

 

[Foxholer]

I don't think you thought about my post properly I am familiar with concept, however on the downswing there is always a swallowing of the shaft plane, sometimes very subtle but it's there. 90% of good players lower in the downswing and if you change the axis you simply can't swing on one plane

You are confusing the concept of 'one plane' and 'single plane'!

There's a difference between Hardy's 1 or 2 plane description - as MiB is describing correctly as referring ONLY to the position of the arms relative to the shoulders - and a 'single plane swing' as per Mo Norman's!

Hardy's definition of a 1PS is fine!

Remember, it's quite possible, in golf, to be standing beside 2 (golf!) balls that are both lost! It's all in the definition!