Serena Williams - Disgraceful

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Crazyface said:
An arguement from some woman on TV was that the cartoon depicted Williams as "a beast". Well from where I watch TV when Williams is on, playing tennis or otherwise, I wouldn't argue with her. (flippin' 'eck, I had to type this three times to make sure it was PC enough).
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As my mate said "I'd rather procreate with her than try and fight her" :-D
 
Old Skier said:
Billy Jean backtracking now and admits that the lady was "out of line".
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She was out of line, absolutely. It doesn’t make the cartoon any less racist IMO. You can’t view it as a stand-alone. It has to be viewed through the prism of racial caricatures used throughout history.
 
therod said:
She was out of line, absolutely. It doesn’t make the cartoon any less racist IMO. You can’t view it as a stand-alone. It has to be viewed through the prism of racial caricatures used throughout history.
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I've not made a comment on the cartoon only on the thread topic. I've seen worse cartoons on political figures lately with no comment made about them so I think I'll steer clear of a subject where duel standards may be in operation.
 
Old Skier said:
I've not made a comment on the cartoon only on the thread topic. I've seen worse cartoons on political figures lately with no comment made about them so I think I'll steer clear of a subject where duel standards may be in operation.
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Only quoted you as it was the last post. I’m not defending her actions, they are unbecoming of a champion & role model. My issue is with the lazy, racial stereotyping in the cartoon. I’d feel the same if we were discussing the Jewish caricature that corbyn recently endorsed or any other racial group. This kind of commentary belongs in the 70’s with the black & white minstrel show & Bernard manning.
 
I'll bet you stopped laughing/watching Tom & Jerry cartoons once the housekeeper starting appearing, yes?
Did you put your foot through the TV and send the bill to MGM?
 
Scrotie McBoogerballs said:
I'll bet you stopped laughing/watching Tom & Jerry cartoons once the housekeeper starting appearing, yes?
Did you put your foot through the TV and send the bill to MGM?
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I feel sorry for you if you can’t see the difference
Edit. I’ve also googlephilled it, as you may have had a point. However, the character was removed because the ‘stereotype didn’t fit with a modern view of the world’ ........in 1952 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 anything more current?
 
therod said:
She was out of line, absolutely. It doesn’t make the cartoon any less racist IMO. You can’t view it as a stand-alone. It has to be viewed through the prism of racial caricatures used throughout history.
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No it doesn't, at all. It was a cartoon printed in a newspaper, a caricature of her drawn by a present-day artist. It looks like her, having a tantrum on a tennis court. That's literally it. She is a muscular black woman, and he has depicted her as a muscular black woman. How else could he have drawn it?
 
Orikoru said:
No it doesn't, at all. It was a cartoon printed in a newspaper, a caricature of her drawn by a present-day artist. It looks like her, having a tantrum on a tennis court. That's literally it. She is a muscular black woman, and he has depicted her as a muscular black woman. How else could he have drawn it?
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So the standard for deciding what is acceptable is the artist? No it’s not, whatever his intent he has to be aware of the possible impact.
Did he have to draw it?
 
Orikoru said:
No it doesn't, at all. It was a cartoon printed in a newspaper, a caricature of her drawn by a present-day artist. It looks like her, having a tantrum on a tennis court. That's literally it. She is a muscular black woman, and he has depicted her as a muscular black woman. How else could he have drawn it?
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Of course it does. Everything thing has a context, to ignore that is just silly. It’s not just a muscular, black woman. It’s a muscular black woman, with exaggerated features that have been used historically to degrade & perpetuate a racially biased view of the world.
 
Old Skier said:
So - was it disgraceful, her actions, not the cartoon.
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Mate, You keep repeating this, please quote anyone who’s said her actions were acceptable, we’ve all condemned her behaviour.
 
pauldj42 said:
So the standard for deciding what is acceptable is the artist? No it’s not, whatever his intent he has to be aware of the possible impact.
Did he have to draw it?
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Well, his job is to be a caricature artist for a newspaper, so in effect yes he had to draw it. If he had to question drawing any human being in case it offended them I don't think he'd get very far in his career.

therod said:
Of course it does. Everything thing has a context, to ignore that is just silly. It’s not just a muscular, black woman. It’s a muscular black woman, with exaggerated features that have been used historically to degrade & perpetuate a racially biased view of the world.
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The definition of a caricature is a cartoon drawing with exaggerated features for goodness sake. I repeat, it is his job to draw a caricature sending up something that's occurred in the news that week/day/whenever. And that's all he has done.
 
Orikoru said:
Well, his job is to be a caricature artist for a newspaper, so in effect yes he had to draw it. If he had to question drawing any human being in case it offended them I don't think he'd get very far in his career.


The definition of a caricature is a cartoon drawing with exaggerated features for goodness sake. I repeat, it is his job to draw a caricature sending up something that's occurred in the news that week/day/whenever. And that's all he has done.
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Mate, read some history

I don’t wanna be preachy, but look at this

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thec...-damaging-history-of-racist-caricature-102982
 
therod said:
Mate, read some history

I don’t wanna be preachy, but look at this

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thec...-damaging-history-of-racist-caricature-102982
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In summary then, he should have just made her lips smaller in his drawing? That would have saved a lot of debate, what a schoolboy error. Because aside from that I don't see any similarities whatsoever. People's mouths do flare up when angry, potentially that's what the artist was going for, but to avoid the grey area he possibly should have avoided drawing them that way.

Many newspapers feature a caricature sending up a news story of that week. Would you advocate that these are all stopped, or simply that they ensure not to feature any black celebrities in future to avoid this kind of furore?

This is a daft piece of reductionism. People a hundred years ago used caricatures to belittle black people - therefore all caricatures featuring black people are racist. Irrespective of the fact that the intentions are completely different.


Answer me this if you don't mind as I'm curious, given that his remit is to create a comic based on a news event of the day, and that he's decided to send up Serena Williams (deservedly) after her strop - what alterations should he have made to the final cartoon that would have ensured it wasn't deemed as racist?
 
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