Scottish Winter Handicaps

[DickInShorts]

Does anybody know how clubs can use WHS handicaps in winter?

Previously we have used CONGU as at start and used full length SSS even though winter tees are forward and even when winter greens in use (CSS usually goes down one).

These handicaps were maintained on HDID without updating CDH and when the next season started reverted to ore winter handicaps.

As WHS handicaps changes are calculated by and maintained by central computer have any clubs worked out what to do?

 

[rulefan]

WHS only requires that play must be on a measured/rated course.
Given that the WHS operates round the world in all sorts of conditions, I can't see why UK winter rounds shouldn't be included in handicap returns. After all isn't it intended to reflect current playing performance. But I can see why many wouldn't agree.

 

[jim8flog]

When you say winter greens

are these what would be considered Temporary greens or are they permanent alternate greens that are are used in winter.

If the former more than 2 in use and it would be a non qualifier (this is is still the situation under the WHS)

If the latter, is it currently measured with Course Rating certificate*. The WHS contains guidelines for the club to alter the Slope Rating with Regional Association approval (if necessary) so comps can continue to be qualifying .

* Ours was done many years ago when we built winter tees.

 

[rulefan]

Does anybody know how clubs can use WHS handicaps in winter?

The WHS does have the concept of an 'Active' season. This has always been a feature in North America because of the big freeze and was done on a state by state basis. But WHS mentions the 'active season' of a golf course. I haven't seen any explanation from CONGU or EG.

 

[rulefan]

* Ours was done many years ago when we built winter tees.

Did you have slope then? Was this the WHS or CONGU?

 

[ger147]

Does anybody know how clubs can use WHS handicaps in winter?

Previously we have used CONGU as at start and used full length SSS even though winter tees are forward and even when winter greens in use (CSS usually goes down one).

These handicaps were maintained on HDID without updating CDH and when the next season started reverted to ore winter handicaps.

As WHS handicaps changes are calculated by and maintained by central computer have any clubs worked out what to do?

Down here in west central Scotland, the rule rather than the exception for clubs in this area is no qualifiers in the winter. Our club runs a winter comp from the end of Oct thru to the end of Feb but the winter course is not measured and we start off of 3 quarters of your official handicap and they have different rules for cuts from there which do not affect our official handicaps.

 

[jim8flog]

Did you have slope then? Was this the WHS or CONGU?

I think many "years ago" means it was CONGU.

My question to DickInShorts was to ascertain the status of the greens and tees and if this information could be used for Appendix G.

 

[Swango1980]

Over winter, when we are on temporary greens, the length of the course drops quite significantly. This makes it relatively easier for higher handicappers against lower handicappers (basically as they have less yardage to cover to mess up with bad shots). I thought it would be good if a club could use a different Slope when conditions like this are in play, to make it a bit fairer for the lower handicappers.

Unfortunately, I've not been trained to measure CR and BR. So, I did quite an extensive amount of research by evaluating all 92 courses in my county, comparing them and seeing how yardage impacts on CR and BR generally. Length is the key factor anyway (from the WHS Workshop, I believe it is around 90% of the calculation for BR and BR, course obstacles and other factors make up the other 10%) I found the following, based on yardage:

Mens Course Rating = 0.0046*(Course Yardage) + 41.718
Mens Bogey Rating = 0.0068*(Course Yardage) + 52.784
Lady CR = 0.0056*(Course Yardage) + 42.165
Lady BR = 0.0086*(Course Yardage) + 56.891

Obviously individual courses will often come out a bit higher or lower than these individual trend lines (remarkably, the Lady CR and BR values are much closer to the general trendlines). But, you could work out the above for your clubs standard length, and then work out a general scaling factor to get to the actual values given for your CR and BR. Then, work out the equivalent values, using the same scaling factor, for the reduced yardage you course may be when temp tees / greens in place.

Once you have CR and BR, then the Slope is simply (BR-CR)*5.381 for men, and (BR-CR)*4.24 for women, as published by WHS

Obviously I can delve into the final 10% of potential difference, based on obstacles (but this may be more trivial anyway compared to the length adjustment, given it is only 10%). However, I did come up with a technique to estimate its impact at my course, using my own perceived difficulty comparison scores for topography, fairway, green target, recoverability from rough, bunkers, penalty areas, trees and green surface, comparing these for the normal course and the winter course at reduced length.

Ultimately, given that the yardage of the course dropped by 480 yards when using temporary greens, and applying the above, Mens Slope (off yellows) fell from 130 to 110. Ladies Slope fell from 140 to 120. So, a 20 Index handicapper would normally play off 23 off yellows (Course Handicap), but when on temporary greens would play off 19.

It certainly feels like it would provide a much more beneficial system, as the higher handicappers tend to sweep up competition wins when we are reduced to winter greens, and many of the single figure handicappers have pretty much stopped entering over the years, over winter when they moan about having no chance.

Sadly, it was just an academic exercise, as I doubt there would be any way to actually temporarily change the slope rating for a competition.

 

[DickInShorts]

We move to winter tees from 1st November and temporary greens on the fairway when frosty or very wet.

It’s unlikely that our winter tee course has been rated.

None of our winter medals and stablefords are qualifiers but we have been able to use HDID to Maintain winter handicaps which generally fall due to the shorter course and especially for the higher handicaps as short game/putting is a lottery on the winter greens.

It sounds like clubs like ours will have to come up with a manual system in the future

 

[jim8flog]

Sadly, it was just an academic exercise, as I doubt there would be any way to actually temporarily change the slope rating for a competition.

If this a regular change then see Appendix G f.

I do note however that you say the changes total 480 yards.

 

[Swango1980]

If this a regular change then see Appendix G f.

I do note however that you say the changes total 480 yards.

I do stress, the only purpose of this was to see if there was a way to make things fairer when the course was restricted to Temporary Greens.

However, it has no relevance to the official handicapping system, as any scores would not be considered Acceptable.

In a nutshell, with the Slope droping to 110 from 130, it appeared that if we played 85% handicap when on temporary greens (110/130%), this would provide a fairer competition.

 

[jim8flog]

We move to winter tees from 1st November and temporary greens on the fairway when frosty or very wet.

It’s unlikely that our winter tee course has been rated.

None of our winter medals and stablefords are qualifiers but we have been able to use HDID to Maintain winter handicaps which generally fall due to the shorter course and especially for the higher handicaps as short game/putting is a lottery on the winter greens.

It sounds like clubs like ours will have to come up with a manual system in the future

The definitive answer is in the guidance

Active and Inactive seasons are not implemented in GB&I. Golf should be played throughout the year; although for many clubs the course setup may mean that, in winter, scores will not be acceptable for handicap purposes.

and as already said

In this context CONGU® directs that scores are acceptable for handicapping purposes if:
• No more than two temporary greens are in play for an 18-hole round;

Agreed looks like some will have to set up a system on something like Excel.

I think scores should still be recorded as Non Qualifiers as Handicap Committees can take these in to account at the Annual Review.

 

[Colin L]

Does anybody know how clubs can use WHS handicaps in winter?

Previously we have used CONGU as at start and used full length SSS even though winter tees are forward and even when winter greens in use (CSS usually goes down one).

These handicaps were maintained on HDID without updating CDH and when the next season started reverted to ore winter handicaps.

As WHS handicaps changes are calculated by and maintained by central computer have any clubs worked out what to do?

Whoever at your club has registered with scottishgolf.hivelearning.com can ask about this and any other WHS matters direct to Scottish Golf and get an answer.