Scotland and drugs

Listening to the news last night the only thing blocked is the safe places to take drugs. That is not reducing the numbers taking them, it is just making it safer to do so, something that makes sense to me incidentally. Worryingly the numbers dying with Methodone in their system is high suggesting that is not really working as an option.

As Bunkermagnet has pointed out there is a huge difference in the figures in Scotland, Westminster is not to blame for this.
 
patricks148 said:
Definitely, Many want to decriminalise and get the criminal element out of it and take the risk out supply, seen a fair few high up in the police and medical profession back this. in fact an Ex CC in Police Scotland who now is involved in Drug Rehab was on the TV this morning calling for this as what we do at the moment just isn't working.

I don't have the answers, but banging Drug addicts up in prisons rife with Drugs isn't working.
Click to expand...

They did the same in Portugal and it worked wonders.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...dly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

More countries need to adopt this approach.
 
Bunkermagnet said:
But the situation is exactly the same in the rest of the UK, and Scotland is still 3 times more than the rest of the UK.
There has to be other reasons.
Click to expand...
of course its not just that, but Scotland is quite small compared to England and the two main Cities and Glasgow and Edinburgh have had problems for a long time, some of it historic Social and economic.

Part of the solution they have wanted to try has been decriminalising some of the drugs and using rehabilitation more rather than chucking offender in jail, jails that are on the whole awash with drugs.

Changing the law might not change things overnight, but what we do at the moment isn't working
 
Last edited:
Lord Tyrion said:
Listening to the news last night the only thing blocked is the safe places to take drugs. That is not reducing the numbers taking them, it is just making it safer to do so, something that makes sense to me incidentally. Worryingly the numbers dying with Methodone in their system is high suggesting that is not really working as an option.

As Bunkermagnet has pointed out there is a huge difference in the figures in Scotland, Westminster is not to blame for this.
Click to expand...

true but from what i've heard its the mixing of some drugs and Methadone that is one of the issues, part of the safe place/decriminalised is monitoring and check what they are taking.

So they are not in some underpass or public place, using dirty needles shooting up god knows what.
 
Last edited:
patricks148 said:
you would be wrong Drug laws are not devolved and are still made by Westminster, there have been attempts to change it for Scotland but blocked
Click to expand...

My point was I thought he had a point re alcohol pricing. I thought DFT point re desperate sounded desperate.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Really, how desperate does that sound against the reality that drug control laws are not devolved and Westminster has blocked some sensible Scottish government plans on drug control.
Click to expand...

If the drug control laws are the same across UK then the problem is a Scottish society one.

Measures are already in place to help addicts, e.g. Methadone.

Do you really think that people how are taking drugs (many new users no doubt) would use the places to inject?
 
One of the issues is the influx of cheap and dangerous drugs. The figures don't show the drug deaths by type (or at least the ones I have seen) and on the news it always shows syringes when talking about drugs.
Doon's theory of richer people turning to drugs is absurd, poor people are still the main target of dealers and crime syndicates as they are the easiest to control. Cheap drugs like Ket and Spice are more problematic across the country than Heroin and Opioid drugs.

As for crime figures dropping, like many government stats these are pinch of salt if ever there was, crime can only be recorded if its reported. People may be less inclined to report crimes due to less police to respond and many smaller crimes being deprioritised (we had a break in of our Garage two months ago, after the initial crime reference being issued we have heard nothing, less inclined to report it if there was a next time).

The policy needs to look at cheap and very dangerous drug availability IMO. Tackle that and you can make inroads to the death toll.
 
KenL said:
If the drug control laws are the same across UK then the problem is a Scottish society one.

Measures are already in place to help addicts, e.g. Methadone.

Do you really think that people how are taking drugs (many new users no doubt) would use the places to inject?
Click to expand...

So why does the Westminster Government stop the Scottish Government from taking measures to try to halt the Scottish problem.:unsure:
 
GreiginFife said:
The policy needs to look at cheap and very dangerous drug availability IMO. Tackle that and you can make inroads to the death toll.
Click to expand...
hmmm. We could even call such a policy a 'war on drugs'...
If we have learnt one thing about drugs over the last 50 years it is that controlling supply is pretty much impossible.
The reason people don't take drugs isn't that they can't get them, is that they don't want them.
Obviously it's not a short term project to get a demographic of mostly pretty desperate people to change their ways, but in the meantime, perhaps we could change our laws to minimise the chances of them killing themselves.
 
pendodave said:
hmmm. We could even call such a policy a 'war on drugs'...
If we have learnt one thing about drugs over the last 50 years it is that controlling supply is pretty much impossible.
The reason people don't take drugs isn't that they can't get them, is that they don't want them.
Obviously it's not a short term project to get a demographic of mostly pretty desperate people to change their ways, but in the meantime, perhaps we could change our laws to minimise the chances of them killing themselves.
Click to expand...


If we cannot control it, then lets make money from it. Sure it's not going to happen, but I'd do it. If we cannot do anything about the problem and all the do gooders say that it's not the fault of the people that they take drugs, just what the hell???????
 
Crazyface said:
Nope. But a nutter from the SNP yesterday was claiming that Scotland has a different set of problems, (from England where this is falling) and it's not their (SNP's) fault.
LOL !
Click to expand...
Not really, what the SNP want to do is have safe places for Drug users to take what ever they are hooked on. Mostly Intravenous drugs. In those safe places they would get clean needles, medical support and even drug checks. This would def save lives, as at the moment many are ODing in alone.Westminster vetoed this, so it isn't just some SNP "nutter" as you called them blaming UK Gov
 
Clearly this has reached the point of being a crisis. Don't really see the point in arguing over the figures - whether other countries are under reporting or Scotland is over reporting - there's no denying it is a bad problem and one that shouldn't be ignored.

However, why it is a lot worse than in England is curious. Ultimately inner cities have much the same kind of issues north and south in terms of poverty.

Possibly there is an issue with supply being much easier up here, whether dealers have a much better foothold or policing is incapable or become immune to the big dealers? I don't know, seems to be a plausible explanation as to why the problem would be much worse here than down south.

My understanding is that the approach being argued for by the Scottish government has been successful in Scandinavia. In terms of treating addicts as patients, allowing them safe spaces to use and not having them go to dealers.

Certainly to remove the need for drug users to buy from dealers seems that this would seem potentially a massive step in terms of putting dealers out of business and meaning far fewer people getting involved in drug use. And as others have mentioned, far less chance of people dying or hospitalising themselves using in a controlled environment.
 
pendodave said:
hmmm. We could even call such a policy a 'war on drugs'...
If we have learnt one thing about drugs over the last 50 years it is that controlling supply is pretty much impossible.
The reason people don't take drugs isn't that they can't get them, is that they don't want them.
Obviously it's not a short term project to get a demographic of mostly pretty desperate people to change their ways, but in the meantime, perhaps we could change our laws to minimise the chances of them killing themselves.
Click to expand...

Hmmm yes, very clever. My point was the current "war on drugs" isn't focussing enough on the cheap, easily obtainable, "designer" drugs that are causing a large problem. Yes, it's important to takle opioids and cocaine but to exert the primary focus here when Spice and Ket deaths are rising disproportionately is, for me, the wrong focus.

I see the effects of these drugs on, mainly, the homeless in Edinburgh and its disturbing.
One thing about threads on Scotland is the number of experts on Scottish culture and familial issues from South of the border that pop, it's staggering.
 
GreiginFife said:
Hmmm yes, very clever. My point was the current "war on drugs" isn't focussing enough on the cheap, easily obtainable, "designer" drugs that are causing a large problem. Yes, it's important to takle opioids and cocaine but to exert the primary focus here when Spice and Ket deaths are rising disproportionately is, for me, the wrong focus.

I see the effects of these drugs on, mainly, the homeless in Edinburgh and its disturbing.
One thing about threads on Scotland is the number of experts on Scottish culture and familial issues from South of the border that pop, it's staggering.
Click to expand...

i only had a brief look at the charts and stats, but it looked like a large percentage were heroin and other opiates, the rest was Benzodiazepines. I'm unfamiliar with spice though i do know about Ket. are these causeing deaths too?

lets not forget that that Alcohol is responsible for twice as many deaths as drugs
 
patricks148 said:
i only had a brief look at the charts and stats, but it looked like a large percentage were heroin and other opiates, the rest was Benzodiazepines. I'm unfamiliar with spice though i do know about Ket. are these causeing deaths too?

lets not forget that that Alcohol is responsible for twice as many deaths as drugs
Click to expand...

Alcohol is another issue completely but one that's pretty much brushed aside because its legal and a huge tax generator (cynical I know).

This is an emotive subject for me as a friend of mine died two years ago due to this synthetic Spice drug. Easily available, as cheap as £3 a hit and massively dangerous. He was a successful guy who lost everything and ended up homeless and using anything he could get his hands on. Many friends and I tried many times to help but he was too far gone. Spice caused him to have a fatal seizure on the streets in the middle of winter.

Heroin and opioids are bad, I am not doubting that but how many deaths are synthesized opoids like Oxy but counted in with the heroin deaths? Oxy can be obtained for a few quid each and can be just as lethal.

IMO focussing in on the "harder" drugs lets stuff like synthetics and ket like substances to flourish almost unchallenged.

Its an opinion based on first hand experience, but like all opinions, others are available.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Bunkermagnet
AI threats to employment
2
Replies
37
Views
1K
HampshireHog
HampshireHog
Hoganman1
Hello From Across The Pond
2
Replies
35
Views
1K
Hoganman1
Hoganman1
Johhny99
Edinburgh Golf Week 2026
Replies
10
Views
1K
ger147
G
Arthur Wedge
VE Day
Replies
16
Views
2K
Doon frae Troon
D
N
Trump Aberdeen - 4 Ball Voucher
Replies
2
Views
479
Neeko1988
N
Top