Tommo21
Tour Winner
Elliot Saltman gets 3 month or three years?????
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jan/18/elliot-saltman-three-year-golf-ban
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jan/18/elliot-saltman-three-year-golf-ban
Saltman gets ban for cheating.
- Thread starter Tommo21
- Start date
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Either way he's got off lightly compared to the other 2 in the piece - 10 years and 20 years.
madandra
Money List Winner
He's fae E'mbra, he looks like a cheat 
Marko77
Q-School Graduate
This is huge both on his reputation and on his efforts to retain the tour card this season.
Not sure they can really compare to Monty. That was a one off where as this is allegedly a more repeated offence.
I wonder though how this DQ is being treated more severe than say Villegas a couple of weeks ago, or other DQs? Has the tour evidence to suggest Saltman conducted this practice in more events than just Russia?
Did he know he was doing wrong? whilst ignorance cannot be justified there is a difference between ignorance and deliberatly cheating.
I hope for golf and the European Tour this issue quietens down quickly.
Not sure they can really compare to Monty. That was a one off where as this is allegedly a more repeated offence.
I wonder though how this DQ is being treated more severe than say Villegas a couple of weeks ago, or other DQs? Has the tour evidence to suggest Saltman conducted this practice in more events than just Russia?
Did he know he was doing wrong? whilst ignorance cannot be justified there is a difference between ignorance and deliberatly cheating.
I hope for golf and the European Tour this issue quietens down quickly.
Bobmysterkaymer
Head Pro
How many times do the pros throw their balls in to the crowd during a comp? I'm sure this isn't allowed!
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
Are you sure his name isn't Rueben Ripley????
Ethan
Money List Winner
Very lenient sentence for multiple occurrences of cheating. I would have thought he would have been banned for long enough so that when he came back, people said "Who?".
HRC99
Journeyman Pro
Very tricky one indeed. From what I remember, he was accused of improving his position only very slightly, but obviously enough to be noticed by his playing partners.
That has got to be pretty difficult to prove in a court of law which is where it will probably end up as it is this guy's livelihood we're talking about.
Much of the damage is already done. His name is in tatters. Sponsorship is hardly going to be easy to come by now.
The European Tour is now in a very difficult position.
If they had let it slide, their membership would be up in arms and they would be lambasted in the media being accused of allowing cheats to prosper. If they stick with their decision, they are likely to end up in an expensive court battle with very significant costs if they lose.
That has got to be pretty difficult to prove in a court of law which is where it will probably end up as it is this guy's livelihood we're talking about.
Much of the damage is already done. His name is in tatters. Sponsorship is hardly going to be easy to come by now.
The European Tour is now in a very difficult position.
If they had let it slide, their membership would be up in arms and they would be lambasted in the media being accused of allowing cheats to prosper. If they stick with their decision, they are likely to end up in an expensive court battle with very significant costs if they lose.
StuartD
Tour Rookie
Surprised it was a ban tbh.
The tour seem to have let this drag on and on and it should have been dealt with sooner.
I know the meeting was canceled on numerous occasions but if it had been done earlier he could have been banned for tour school and not got his card. Saltman blew the chance of taking the halfway lead the other week. Would have looked really bad for the tour if he had won the event.
The 3 month ban is really not that bad for him anyway as his tour category would mean he would probably miss some of the upcoming events anyway
The tour seem to have let this drag on and on and it should have been dealt with sooner.
I know the meeting was canceled on numerous occasions but if it had been done earlier he could have been banned for tour school and not got his card. Saltman blew the chance of taking the halfway lead the other week. Would have looked really bad for the tour if he had won the event.
The 3 month ban is really not that bad for him anyway as his tour category would mean he would probably miss some of the upcoming events anyway
Tommo21
Tour Winner
I think the fact that his playing partners seen the offence at least five times is the reason. No one is suggesting Villegas deliberately cheated.
If a tour pro doesn’t know how to mark his ball consistently then he deserves to be booted out, it’s bottom drawer basic stuff.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Is moving the marker only very slightly NOT cheating?
This does not seem to have been one inadvertent mistake, but a pattern, and the rules are clear. If he was stupid enough to get banned for slight movements that didn't give him any real advantage, more fool him.
Will no doubt end up in court and be an expensive and protracted case. I can't see what evidence he can put forward against two witnesses who raised it at the time. If he was sensible, take it on the chin, don't admit liability and let it drop
T
thecraw
Guest
Without wanting to open a completely new can of worms, why did the players committee not take the same stance with Monty? Its clear from TV evidence that Monty did not replace the ball in the same spot.
Devils advocate I know, but I would be using that in my defence in court along with a full tape of the incident and be demanding why I was discriminated against!
That aside if he is/was guilty then hell mend him, from what I've heard he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer!
I think the European Tour made have set themselves up for a court battle.
Devils advocate I know, but I would be using that in my defence in court along with a full tape of the incident and be demanding why I was discriminated against!
That aside if he is/was guilty then hell mend him, from what I've heard he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer!
I think the European Tour made have set themselves up for a court battle.
NWJocko
Tour Winner
He mustn't be. Is it just me that, whilst agreeing it is cheating and deserves everything he gets, fails to see what he had to gain by moving his ball fractionally closer to the hole?
Seems a really stupid thing to do as makes hee haw difference to the putt.
Think its difficult to defend himself against the consistent nature of the offence noticed by 2 partners.
Robobum
Money List Winner
It's hard to judge without having the full facts on these things.
But, if he had done it 5 times during the same round why hadn't his playing partners pulled him up on it after the 1st time, the 2nd time, 3rd time????
Why did they leave it till the end then decide to bring it up?? Part of their job is to "look after" the interests of the rest of the field too, seeing him "cheat" a further 4 times before bringing it up doesn't strike me as doing that.
Although not excuseable, wasn't the Monty one a bit different?? Didn't he return after a weather delay and find his markers no longer there??
But, if he had done it 5 times during the same round why hadn't his playing partners pulled him up on it after the 1st time, the 2nd time, 3rd time????
Why did they leave it till the end then decide to bring it up?? Part of their job is to "look after" the interests of the rest of the field too, seeing him "cheat" a further 4 times before bringing it up doesn't strike me as doing that.
Although not excuseable, wasn't the Monty one a bit different?? Didn't he return after a weather delay and find his markers no longer there??
StuartD
Tour Rookie
Big name and a small name but i agree with you 100%
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Monty's was a one-off, possible breach of rules but by no means deliberate. If this Saltman case is proven then he's done it 5 times or more and in a matter that looks deliberate. A Pro that doesn't know how to mark his ball correctly? Deserves all he gets for being a prat!
Tommo21
Tour Winner
Why should they in the middle of their round. I would have kept an eye on the situation, made sure what I was seeing was correct, corroborate with my playing partner if he was seeing the same. These two players were not under any obligation to pull him up straight away as it wasn’t them that was cheating. They told the officials after their round and Saltman was DQd.
Telling Saltman straight away would have let a cheat off the hook with a two shot penalty or a “sorry I didn’t mean it†the fact that he done it more than once would have been enough for me to keep an eye on the situation. I would imagine a lot of “did you just see what I just seen†was going on before these two guys were sure of what was happening. No, I wouldn’t have jumped in straight away, not at that level. I would make sure of what I was seeing.
I’m sure these two players will have a lot of pressure on them and they should be congratulated on being strong enough to follow this through.
Bunkers
Head Pro
From a tour insider source: Apparently after the round and the incident was reported, rules officials first asked Saltman how he normally marks his ball. His answer was to place the marker to the right side of the ball before removing the ball to clean, however, he then replaced his ball infront of the marker in line with the hole. Once this admission was made the rules officials had enough evidence in the 2 witnesses plus a "confession" to DQ him. It seems pretty clear that he is a plonker of the highest order who essentially didn't know /wasn't bright enough to realise how to mark a ball correctly.
surefire
Challenge Tour Pro
Completely agree with this.
The guys are playing for a living remember, the last thing they want is any kind of confrontation to spoil their focus in the middle of the round.
They still mentioned it before the card was signed, so if it had just a case of assessing penalty strokes, this could have been done, with no problem. The field would still be protected.
I would only say they should have mentioned it earlier if they first signed the card, then mentioned the fact. However as they didn't do this, I see no problem.
