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Salary inequalities

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rudebhoy said:
My last 2 employers were large multinationals where disclosing your salary was a disciplinary offence. However I was involved in salary decisions on an annual basis, so had sight of what everyone who worked for me was paid. I did this for 15 years, must have had 200-odd folk working for me over that period, and it was noticeable that women were routinely paid 20%-30% less than men doing the same job.

A lot of this came from their starting salary, there was an obvious bias at play year after year when it came to recruitment.
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Has the company been reported yet? For this yet.
 
rudebhoy said:
My last 2 employers were large multinationals where disclosing your salary was a disciplinary offence. However I was involved in salary decisions on an annual basis, so had sight of what everyone who worked for me was paid. I did this for 15 years, must have had 200-odd folk working for me over that period, and it was noticeable that women were routinely paid 20%-30% less than men doing the same job.

A lot of this came from their starting salary, there was an obvious bias at play year after year when it came to recruitment.
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Prove it or it didn't happen :rolleyes:
 
AmandaJR said:
Prove it or it didn't happen :rolleyes:
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Amanda, you roll your eyes all you want but have you ever heard of due process? When you are accusing a company of something that could potentially ruin them then yes. Absolutely "prove it or it didn't happen".
That's why I asked if it was reported. All it takes is one person to lodge a complaint and one freedom of information request and bingo.
This is all I hear. "it happens" but when we get to the brass tax no one can produce one shred of evidence. The poster said he has seen the evidence with his own eyes. What a missed opportunity that was!!!!

All I see is "the things I want in life haven't just dropped on my lap. Who can I blame".

My wife earns 69k. She's worked her ass off for it. Like her male counterparts did too

When I see actual evidence I will be the first to condemn it (the sexism not the evidence)
 
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In one employment many moons ago we were not allowed to reveal our salary, so 3 or 4 departments of engineers (about 100 of us) basically all doing the same sort of job coordinated a chart on which we anonymously plotted our Salary against Age, and we marked this on the charts with an indication of our grade. Once it had finished going round the organisers drew best fit lines for each grade (engineers you see) so you could see whether for your age and grade you were above or below the curve. Of course as it was anonymous the female engineers could make direct comparisons with their mostly male colleagues of same age and grade. It worked.
 
AmandaJR said:
Good to see you. I'm swimming uphill here!
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Swimming uphill - and in treacle to boot !!

Sadly, you're arguing on a golf forum mostly populated by men who, if they don't want to see a gender pay gap, won't see one. No matter how hard you try to demonstrate it. (And yes, I too know women who earn a good wage - but at least I don't let that fool me into thinking the gap doesn't exist).
 
What I've always seen with the gender pay gap is it's historical because the man used to go to work whilst the wife stayed at home

Then you move into the next era when the women in society put their careers on hold to have a family and resume at say 40 and then are playing catch up the whole time

However I think in years to come it will get better and fairer as we see the world changing

I mean how many stay at home mum's are there compared to years ago? I hope it changes , I believe it will that people will

I have a couple colleges well 3 that earn more than their bfs.. they feel odd .. they shouldn't
 
backwoodsman said:
Swimming uphill - and in treacle to boot !!

Sadly, you're arguing on a golf forum mostly populated by men who, if they don't want to see a gender pay gap, won't see one. No matter how hard you try to demonstrate it. (And yes, I too know women who earn a good wage - but at least I don't let that fool me into thinking the gap doesn't exist).
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But where does it exist? I'm finding it hard to understand where or how Women are or can be paid lower wages to a man doing the same job with the same conditions. Its too simplistic suggesting the issue is being deflected by men on a golf forum who are blinded by their prejudices. Come on, give us some facts.
 
The reality is that people like other people who are like them. It’s human nature that a boss is more likely to promote someone similar to them.

So if all the senior management are men, their subconscious bias will lead them to favour men for promotion. It’s not a case of overtly choosing someone based on gender, but rather selecting based on certain behaviours which favour men.
 
SocketRocket said:
But where does it exist? I'm finding it hard to understand where or how Women are or can be paid lower wages to a man doing the same job with the same conditions. Its too simplistic suggesting the issue is being deflected by men on a golf forum who are blinded by their prejudices. Come on, give us some facts
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Where you are going wrong, is to keep making the assumption that the gender pay gap is simply about women not getting 'same pay for same job/responsibility'. That's not the issue - at least not the sole issue. While folk keep thinking it is the (sole) issue, the gap will persist

I promised myself I'd not get drawn into this thread as I think a forum - especially this forum - is not a useful place to discuss complex issues of this type. Plenty of other threads have shown why. But Amanda and others have already suggest how and where to look. The news & media regularly highlight it. The pay gap is not hard to see - if you want to see it.

And on that note, here ends my involvement in this thread. (Sorry girls - too easy for me to duck out but here's not the place).
 
backwoodsman said:
Where you are going wrong, is to keep making the assumption that the gender pay gap is simply about women not getting 'same pay for same job/responsibility'. That's not the issue - at least not the sole issue. While folk keep thinking it is the (sole) issue, the gap will persist

I promised myself I'd not get drawn into this thread as I think a forum - especially this forum - is not a useful place to discuss complex issues of this type. Plenty of other threads have shown why. But Amanda and others have already suggest how and where to look. The news & media regularly highlight it. The pay gap is not hard to see - if you want to see it.

And on that note, here ends my involvement in this thread. (Sorry girls - too easy for me to duck out but here's not the place).
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Also you find that a lot (not all) if it doesn't affect them and they don't come across it personally it doesn't exist

Some people ofc do notice these things or when pointed out are shocked. To me (and I think it's what it's meant to be) that's what "woke" is. Because you become awoken to issues that others face not just your own issues
 
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SocketRocket said:
But where does it exist? I'm finding it hard to understand where or how Women are or can be paid lower wages to a man doing the same job with the same conditions. Its too simplistic suggesting the issue is being deflected by men on a golf forum who are blinded by their prejudices. Come on, give us some facts.
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https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...rkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2022

The facts are there if you want to do a bit of searching

It also wouldn’t take much common sense to expect there to still be a wage gap based on gender
 
Liverpoolphil said:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...rkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2022

The facts are there if you want to do a bit of searching

It also wouldn’t take much common sense to expect there to still be a wage gap based on gender
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I'm not sure where SocketRocket stands on this. I don't believe he disputes average salaries are higher for men on average, but rather looking for examples were a man would get paid more to do the same job as a woman (simplistically, a job that had a set pay attached to it)? Because, if there were examples of this, it would be nice to hear from any law people here what the consequences would be to that company?

Scanning through the link, it seems to make interesting reading, with the pay gap higher for those over 40. This could be a result of having people in that category starting their working lives when discrimination was blatant. A time when it was fine to say out loud "a woman belongs in the kitchen". Men of that era started climbing the ladder early, and are nearly all the senior positions today. So, when we allow today's workforce time to progress their careers, you'd like to think that gap will close. There seem to be many legal issues a company could get themselves into if there was a pattern of them favouring young men.

There are other issues, however, that might not make it close entirely. Motherhood is something that biologically throws a spanner in the works for women rather than men, by putting bigger pauses in their career progression. Even if it doesn't cause them to fall down the ladder, men have more time to climb it.

Then there are different career choices men and women make. If we believe there are general differences in the personalities between men and women, then they will make different choices. It appears that, in general, women tend to go for careers that happen to be lower paid, men higher paid. Some high paid companies may be nearly all men, but that may well be because 90+% men apply to work there. If it was a 50/50 split of applications, I'm pretty sure that company could get into big trouble? Whereas they'd probably have got away with it a few decades ago.

There are plenty of jobs with set pay scales, and so there should be no difference between men and women doing the same job. However, there are also jobs were employees can negotiate their salary. I can't think many employers will simply give more money to a man (maybe there are some dinosaurs out there), they are more interested in keeping staff that makes their company profitable. But, do men and women, generally, negotiate differently? Are men generally happy to negotiate hard, whereas are women generally less likely to do so? This seems to be another regular reason that studies point at when discussing the pay gap.
 
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