rules question

[Simbo]

1 a ball is lying 1 foot inside the boundary line of the course, a player takes an unplayebale and takes the one stroke penalty, is he allowed to drop the ball more than 2 club lengths from the spot the ball is in because it is a boundary fence???

2. duriong a round can a player send his caddy to the clubhouse to retreive waterproofs for him??

3. is another player allowed to mark your ball on the green pick it up, then you put it back down??


iv searched the r+a and cant find anything about these, can a yone point me in the right direction???

 

[MashieNiblick]

1 a ball is lying 1 foot inside the boundary line of the course, a player takes an unplayebale and takes the one stroke penalty, is he allowed to drop the ball more than 2 club lengths from the spot the ball is in because it is a boundary fence???

2. during a round can a player send his caddy to the clubhouse to retreive waterproofs for him??

3. is another player allowed to mark your ball on the green pick it up, then you put it back down??


iv searched the r+a and cant find anything about these, can a yone point me in the right direction???

1. No. I am assuming the thinking is that there is additional relief fom the boundary fence because it is an obstruction but "Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings" are specifically excluded from the definition of obstruction (see Definitions in the Rules) so there is no free relief from boundary fences. The player would simply proceed under one of the 3 options allowed under the unplayable ball rule (Drop with 2 club lengths NNTH, back on a line with the flag as far as you like, or replay the shot)


2. Yes. He can also ask another person to caddy in the meantime or ask someone else to go to the clubhouse. More than 1 person may caddy for you during a round but you can't have 2 caddies simultanteously. However just fetching or carrying things for a player doesn't necessarily make someone a caddy.

Decision 6-4/4.5: Another Caddie or Friend Carries Clubs While Player's Caddie Returns to Tee with Player's Glove indicates that the "casual act of someone assisting the player or his caddie in these circumstances does not constitute a breach of Rule 6-4".

In addition Decision 6-4/5.3 Status of Additional Persons and Items Carried by Such Persons for Player states that

"Q. May a player have a caddie carry his clubs and also have additional persons carry items other than clubs (e.g. a rainsuit, umbrella, food and drink) for the player?

A. Yes. The additional persons would be outside agencies, and any items carried by them would also be considered outside agencies while in their possession. However, the Committee may prohibit the use of such persons in the conditions of the competition."


3.Yes. Rule 20-1 Lifting and Marking says "A ball to be lifted under the Rules may be lifted by the player, his partner or another person authorised by the player".

Rule 20-3a Placing and Replacing says

"A ball to be placed under the Rules must be placed by the player or his partner.

A ball to be replaced under the Rules must be replaced by any one of the following: (i) the person who lifted or moved the ball, (ii) the player, or (iii) the player's partner. The ball must be placed on the spot from which it was lifted or moved."

Whoever lifted the ball the player may always replace it. See the FAQs for this Rule on the R&A website.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/

It's all there but sometimes you have dig around a bit.

 

[Imurg]

Can I be a Smartarse and say that these are the answers I came up with without looking....
Didn't know the Rule numbers though....:clap:

 

[duncan mackie]

you have had the specific answers, but in relation to the last part of you post you need to be clear about what you are looking for to be successful in your digging around in the rules.

No 1 - you are looking for 2 seperate things. 1 - is relief available from the boundary fence? 2. what are the options for an unplayable lie? Now you stand a chance of 'getting it right'.

No 2 is slightly different and is closely related to 'is there a penalty for drinking tomato soup at the half way hut?'. What I mean by that is that unless you can find a specific reference in the rules prohibiting an action then it's assumed it's OK in itself. What you then have to consider are any possible impacts on other rules from the action - in this case if the player himself had spent 30 mins getting the waterproofs (a) the rules don't prohibit it but (b) the rule on delay of game would take effect.

No 3. Here it's procedural and you need to find the section of the rules that deals with it, as set out above.

Hope this helps.

 

[Simbo]

ok, number 1. i have played against someone who has stated that you can drop the ball further than 2 club lengths froma boun dary fence, not neasrer the hole obviouslt , because you are taking a penalty for releif from the fence but 2 club lengths wont give it, this only applies to boundary fences. so he is wrong then??

2. does getting a caddy/anyone to get you waterproofs from the clubhouse during a round not qualify as adding to your equipment during a round??? have also played with a guy who played 4 holes in his trainers because he forgot his shoes, he then changed onto his golf shoes after 4 holes and was disqualified for it??? right or wrong decision???

 

[Colin L]

Hi Simbo
No. 1 Yes he is very wrong indeed. As has been said above, a boundary fence is not an obstruction. See the Definition of an Obstruction:

An “obstruction’’ is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured ice, except:
a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings ........


Therefore, far from getting extra relief because it is a boundary fence as he thought, you get none at all. And just to correct further his curious view of the Rules, you get one club length from the nearest point of relief, not 2 club lengths from an obstruction where relief is allowed.

No 2. The only thing you cannot add to your equipment on the course is a club - if you are already carrying 14. If you have fewer than 14 you can add clubs up to the total of 14 provided you don't borrow them from another player. As has been said above, you can send your caddy to get your waterproofs or a cheese sandwich, a different pair of shoes - or your putter, say, if you had forgotten it and had only 13 clubs. Disqualification for changing your shoes is nonsense: there is simply not a Rule to support such an action.

 

[Foxholer]

You may drop it more than 2 club lengths if you proceed under Clausea a or b of the Ball Unplayable rule (28) - Stoke and Distance; behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped respectively.

However if proceeding under Clause C - the only other option - then 2 club lengths is the max.

Note that the ball may roll up to a further 2 club lengths and if not nearer the hole than the ball was lifted from, is now in play.

Here's a link to the Rule: http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=28

Adding Waterproofs - fine as long as itdoesn't delay play.

Changing shoes - also fine as long as it doesn't delay play.

Likewise toilet breaks!

 

[Colin L]

Indeed, that is how the player can proceed under Rule 28 . But there seems, as mashieniblick has mentioned too, a confusion in the mind of the player who wants more than 2 club lengths for his 28c option. He seems to want relief from the boundary fence to be built in.

Simbo, I hope this brief summary of what has been said will help clarify:

1) the player cannot take relief from a boundary fence (if that was what was in his mind) because it is not an obstruction (see my post above);

2) the player can either play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 28 Ball Unplayable. Proceeding under Rule 28 is not the same as relief. He has 3 options under a penalty of 1 stroke (see Mashieniblick's and Foxholer's posts). If he chooses 28c his dropped ball must hit a part of the course no more than 2 club lengths from where the ball lay. Whatever he chooses, the boundary fence is irrelevant.

Hope that helps