Rules Query

[Down_The_Middle]

Played in our medal on Sunday and on a par 3 I hit the ball into a lateral water hazard. I decided to hit a provisional even tho my playing partners had agreed the ball was in the water. We found my ball and I took a penalty drop (2 club lengths from point of entry) and made a 5. Now if I decided I didnt want to take the drop but play another from the orignal shot position (the tee). Could I have played my provisional ball which I had already hit rather than walk back to the tee and play another

 

[freddielong]

no

 

[bobmac]

no

I agree, but I'll watch this with interest

 

[Ethan]

No.

 

[DCB]

NO

 

[bobmac]

NO

What's your long answer?

 

[Ethan]

May be more helpful to add an explanation.

If the ball is determined to be in the hazard, the provisional is picked up and you then proceed with one of the options available for a ball in a hazard - drop, play or replay. So you can go back to the tee and replay, but you can't use the provisional.

If you dispute the playing partners view that it is in the hazard, and you think it may be lost elsewhere outside the hazard, then you could play 2 balls, one according to your interpretation, one according to theirs, and let the committee sort it out afterwards.

 

[SammmeBee]

If you're ball is in a water hazard then you can;t play a provisional and therefore the second ball you played should be the ball in play. You played the wrong ball....

 

[chrisd]

No! you did the right thing. As soon as you found your ball it was the "ball in play"




Chris

 

[SammmeBee]

Note definition of Provisional Ball and then look at Decision 27-2a/2.....

 

[bobmac]

I knew someone would find this.
The query I have is they all agreed the ball was in a hazard on the tee so he shouldn't of hit it in the first place. You're right if he does hit it, it's in play as 3.
If there's any doubt the ball may or may not be in the hazard or a lost ball, then the ball can be hit as a provisional but still cant be played when the original ball is found in the hazard.

Bottom line is if you all agree it's in the hazard, you can't hit a provisional.

 

[coolhand]

If they've all agreed the ball is in a hazard then isn't the ball then played taking the Replay option.

 

[viscount17]

can't say I've ever really understood the reason for the 'a point on the opposite side of the hazard equidistant to the hole from the point where the ball last crossed the margin' option.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Decision 27-2a/2.2 says:
Q. Is it true that, if a player’s original ball may have come to rest in a water hazard, the player is precluded from playing a provisional ball?
A. No. Even though the original ball may be in a water hazard, the player is entitled to play a provisional ball if the original ball might also be lost outside the water hazard or out of bounds. In such a case, if the original ball is found in the water hazard, the provisional ball must be abandoned – Rule 27–2c.

I don't think that all players agreeing it is in the hazard is the same as saying it definitely isn't, especially the further away it is. If there is any doubt (when on the tee)then I think playing a provisional may be OK.

One thing that is certain though is that you can NEVER play a provisional if the original is found.

 

[viscount17]

I don't think 'introducing' a provisional can ever be wrong, it's the sensible thing to do. The issues arise over when the provisional becomes the ball in play (or not).

run up against the limitations of the language - you may play a provisional but it's not necessarily the ball in play.

 

[freddielong]

I don't think 'introducing' a provisional can ever be wrong, it's the sensible thing to do. The issues arise over when the provisional becomes the ball in play (or not).

run up against the limitations of the language - you may play a provisional but it's not necessarily the ball in play.

The point is you can not loose a ball in a hazard so if everyone agrees its in the hazard it doesn't matter if you do not find it, you drop another as if you did, so no need for a provisional.

 

[CrapHacker]

I don't think 'introducing' a provisional can ever be wrong, it's the sensible thing to do. The issues arise over when the provisional becomes the ball in play (or not).

run up against the limitations of the language - you may play a provisional but it's not necessarily the ball in play.

The point is you can not loose a ball in a hazard so if everyone agrees its in the hazard it doesn't matter if you do not find it, you drop another as if you did, so no need for a provisional.

What happens if you can't find/ see the ball in the hazard, and from the distance involved aren't sure/ have a disagreement over exactly where it entered the hazard ?

What options do you have then ?

 

[freddielong]

If there is a doubt that it went in the Hazard then you have to treat it as lost and play another ball, if you are certain it went in then if you cant find it, it is not a problem you drop it as if you have taken releif. Again for you all to be certain its in you have to be able to agree where it went in IMO.

 

[Timberbonce]

This just keeps coming up..its very similar to a question I asked a couple of weeks ago.
It seems odd to me that you can just declare a ball is in the hazard without a doubt when you cant see it in there and identify it....
But imagine the alternative... at my club there is a river all the way down the right hand side of a long par 5 in the river or on the overgrown near bank is hazard, the far bank and beyond is oob.

The chances of ever identifying your ball in there is minimal at best. So you would have a situation where the hazard becomes effectively OOB, which also seems wrong.

So, if i see it correctly, it is just one of those ambiguous rules that is open to interpretation and it could go 2 different ways depending on who you are playing with at the time.

 

[freddielong]

I agree but it is the rules, as you have also pointed out the water hazard could be 40 feet deep and you would have no way of checking your ball is your ball without squba equipment.

I think to there credit the R&A do recognise that there are grey areas, and tried to tighten the rule up recently, I think it used to be something like "if you think" and its changed to "unless there is doubt", still one where if your playing partner wanted to be an idiot he could.