Rules on letting through the following group(s)?

[AdamBC]

Threeball Stableford ...

The group infront (of which 2 players have a bit of a reputation for slow(er) play) fell back from the group in front of them (2 of whom aren't exactly quick players either!) to (eventually) create a 2+ (if not 3) hole gap - it was a 1+ hole gap by the turn!

Is there an official (eg R&A) rule on letting through the following group(s) that the offending group should have followed?

Alternatively, is there a recognised practice?

We ended up waiting on every shot without exception - and taking 4 1/2 hours to get round, instead what should have been a (maximum) 3 3/4 hours!

All comments/views welcome ...

Thanks ...

 

[bladeplayer]

Threeball Stableford ...

The group infront (of which 2 players have a bit of a reputation for slow(er) play) fell back from the group in front of them (2 of whom aren't exactly quick players either!) to (eventually) create a 2+ (if not 3) hole gap - it was a 1+ hole gap by the turn!

Is there an official (eg R&A) rule on letting through the following group(s) that the offending group should have followed?

Alternatively, is there a recognised practice?

We ended up waiting on every shot without exception - and taking 4 1/2 hours to get round, instead what should have been a (maximum) 3 3/4 hours!

All comments/views welcome ...

Thanks ...

Etiquette (sp) rather than a rule .. there is a pace of play rule in 6.5 something or other . But that covers time playing shots and penalties for that rather than calling ppl.through...
If they close u can tee off and step aside and let them tee off and walk up behind ..

If ur delayed on fairway step aside and let them tee off . U could plau ur 2nd as they walk down then step aside getting to the green.

Few scenarios depending on hole or even course bn played ..



Someone will b along to clarify better in a bit tho

 

[rulefan]

There is no Rule of Golf for this situation. As said, it is a matter of etiquette unless the club issues a rule. But this cannot include golf penalties. The club would have to find some other sanction.

 

[Foxholer]

Many folk also misinterpret the 'guidance'.

If there is a gap of 1 hole, many (those held up) consider that to be the loss of a hole, where it might only be 1 shot's worth of 'loss'! And if it's on a Par 3 (and the guys in front are still on the Tee, it's not even that! Remember that the group in front has already been given a start of 1.5 shots, maybe more! To have 'lost a hole' wher 2 consecutive Par 4s would mean that the group in front would need to be on the green of the next hole (say 12) when the 'offending' group were teeing off from the previous hole (11). My place starts with a(n evil) Par 3, so even more start given there! This seems to reduce congestion as min tee time is constrained - to 9 mins - though it's still a long round!

 

[AdamBC]

Many folk also misinterpret the 'guidance'.

If there is a gap of 1 hole, many (those held up) consider that to be the loss of a hole, where it might only be 1 shot's worth of 'loss'! And if it's on a Par 3 (and the guys in front are still on the Tee, it's not even that! Remember that the group in front has already been given a start of 1.5 shots, maybe more! To have 'lost a hole' wher 2 consecutive Par 4s would mean that the group in front would need to be on the green of the next hole (say 12) when the 'offending' group were teeing off from the previous hole (11). My place starts with a(n evil) Par 3, so even more start given there! This seems to reduce congestion as min tee time is constrained - to 9 mins - though it's still a long round!

As we were standing on the par 4 9th tee, the "offending" group had only just finished playing their second shots (all tee shots on the fairway), as the group they were following were walking off the par 4 10th green (our 9th and 10th holes are parallel with adjacent tees/greens so easy to see at least 2 groups in front) - later, the offending group were starting to putt on the par 4 15th green, as the group they were following had played the par 4 16th and were walking off the par 3 17th green - but, having established (above) there is no rule per se, we have decided to resort to etiquette - we're not a club/section that resorts to picking on individual players, so we have decided to construct a carefully worded communication to all Members reminding everyone of their responsibilities towards other Members and the need to be conscious of slow(er) play - not sure there's much else we can do?!!!

 

[Foxholer]

As we were standing on the par 4 9th tee, the "offending" group had only just finished playing their second shots (all tee shots on the fairway), as the group they were following were walking off the par 4 10th green (our 9th and 10th holes are parallel with adjacent tees/greens so easy to see at least 2 groups in front) - later, the offending group were starting to putt on the par 4 15th green, as the group they were following had played the par 4 16th and were walking off the par 3 17th green - but, having established (above) there is no rule per se, we have decided to resort to etiquette - we're not a club/section that resorts to picking on individual players, so we have decided to construct a carefully worded communication to all Members reminding everyone of their responsibilities towards other Members and the need to be conscious of slow(er) play - not sure there's much else we can do?!!!

Imo, the first of those is definitely 'out of position' but would not satisfy the 'lost a hole' condition. The second would - as there 8 or 9 shots between the offending group and the one in front of it (6.5 is the boundary imo).

FWIW...In order to decide (easy on consecutive Par 4s), simply 'subtract' 1 hole from the position of the 'non-offending group in front and imagine whether the 'offending group' would be able to play as they did - plus a smidgeon of leeway. As, in the first instance, to play as simulated would endanger the group (who would be 'on the green' when the 'offending group' began hitting to it), then the 'lost a hole' test is not satisfied.

 

[USER1999]

Etiquette, let faster groups through. Easy as. Lost art these days.

 

[Siolag]

As we were standing on the par 4 9th tee, the "offending" group had only just finished playing their second shots (all tee shots on the fairway), as the group they were following were walking off the par 4 10th green (our 9th and 10th holes are parallel with adjacent tees/greens so easy to see at least 2 groups in front) - later, the offending group were starting to putt on the par 4 15th green, as the group they were following had played the par 4 16th and were walking off the par 3 17th green - but, having established (above) there is no rule per se, we have decided to resort to etiquette - we're not a club/section that resorts to picking on individual players, so we have decided to construct a carefully worded communication to all Members reminding everyone of their responsibilities towards other Members and the need to be conscious of slow(er) play - not sure there's much else we can do?!!!

We got an email like that recently but from what I can see, it’s made no difference. Medals on Saturdays can be painfully slow, and I’m not ripping 200 yards off the tee and running to it, far from it.

 

[Tashyboy]

Know how you feel, we had it today and it was purgatory. Our last hole a par five. We got to the tee as the two ball in front was just walking off. I was 10 yards away from them. The previous hole is a 170 yd par three. As we teed off, they had played there second shots. Neither of them were long hitters, or straight. We got to our balls and were 80 yds behind them. They had 250 to the green. The was a three ball on the green. I looked round. There was two ball stood on the tee. 220 yds down the fairway, us three. 80 yds in front them two and a three ball on the green. The three ball cleared the green, those two in front hit there third shots. They both went 150 yds downhill. They were both on the green in five.
We caught the two ball up on the 11th, I honestly thought one of them had died whilst stood up addressing the ball. I told my PP " I never knew Bryson dechambu had joined our course".
I just got the impression that coz them in front were slow and them in front of them were slow, we will be slow. Those at the very front had lost 2. 1/2 holes.

 

[Fish]

We've had small time sheets stapled to 1 scorecard in every group to identify where (or who) is responsible for the constant complaints we've been getting due to slow play, although the [known] offenders never admit or think they're slow!

It only has the tee start time, 5th, 9th, 13th, 16th and finish times to be added to the grid, I've not heard anything back from the months of doing this, but it has made people more aware and conscious if nothing else and the slower play has eased up dramatically.

 

[Siolag]

We've had small time sheets stapled to 1 scorecard in every group to identify where (or who) is responsible for the constant complaints we've been getting due to slow play, although the [known] offenders never admit or think they're slow!

It only has the tee start time, 5th, 9th, 13th, 16th and finish times to be added to the grid, I've not heard anything back from the months of doing this, but it has made people more aware and conscious if nothing else and the slower play has eased up dramatically.

I’d like to see this at our club. Sometimes we are piled up at the 2nd tee on medals.

 

[Fish]

I’d like to see this at our club. Sometimes we are piled up at the 2nd tee on medals.

If your banked up already on the 2nd then your starting intervals aren’t long enough.

This kind of exercise will identify that quickly, especially if you add more tees to the time grid.

 

[inc0gnito]

Went for a round last week and was waiting from first hole on a 2 ball in front. I was on my own and managed to catch up to them on the 3rd tee box. I wandered over, expecting them to let me through as they were only teeing off.

Douchebag turned round and said why don’t you join the guy behind you.

There really needs to be a rule, or permission to name and shame on social media

 

[Slab]

Went for a round last week and was waiting from first hole on a 2 ball in front. I was on my own and managed to catch up to them on the 3rd tee box. I wandered over, expecting them to let me through as they were only teeing off.

Douchebag turned round and said why don’t you join the guy behind you.

There really needs to be a rule, or permission to name and shame on social media

I'd expect a single to catch up and I'd expect the pair to let you through &/or invite you to join them... But jeez what's the tee spacing like if you were waiting from the 1st hole!

 

[Siolag]

I'd expect a single to catch up and I'd expect the pair to let you through &/or invite you to join them... But jeez what's the tee spacing like if you were waiting from the 1st hole!

Surely they either started late or the guy was just waiting for them to finish? All depends on the length of the hole. Our first is a dogleg par 5 so you are ok playing off once the majority of groups have hit their second shot.

 

[Slab]

Surely they either started late or the guy was just waiting for them to finish? All depends on the length of the hole. Our first is a dogleg par 5 so you are ok playing off once the majority of groups have hit their second shot.

Didn't they identify that practice as one of the biggest contributors to slow pace and congestion/choke points?

 

[robinthehood]

groups going out before their alloted time doesnt help either, I as waiting for a friend on the tee and a group who were after us asked afew times if they could go, meaning they would have gone off a few mins before my time.
Me and friend went off on time and had I not waited by the tee we would have had a group between us and the group who when off at the correct time ahead of us.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We have clocks on by our 7th and 13th tees. The clocks are set to reflect a 4hr round (but obviously we can change that according to format and playing group size). For a 4hr round the clock by 7th is set 80mins slow - the clock by the 13th is set 160mins slow. When a group gets to the first clock they are 'on time' for the expected 4hr pace of play if the clock shows their 1st hole tee off time; if the clock shows a time later than that, the group is 'behind pace'; if it shows a time before - it is 'ahead of pace'. And the same for the clock by the 13th tee. So every group from the very first group out knows whether they are ahead of; on, or behind the expected pace of play. Also in comps where our tee off time is known, we are asked to enter our round completion time on our card.

This is all fairly recent but in general these measures seem to be working pretty well.

If (given all the guidance in the previous posts) you feel you are indeed being held up - and you can catch them before they complete teeing off on the hole in front of that you're playing, it's worth a little gentle word telling them that they seem to have dropped off the pace and need to speed up a bit or let you play through.

 

[patricks148]

Went for a round last week and was waiting from first hole on a 2 ball in front. I was on my own and managed to catch up to them on the 3rd tee box. I wandered over, expecting them to let me through as they were only teeing off.

Douchebag turned round and said why don’t you join the guy behind you.

There really needs to be a rule, or permission to name and shame on social media

i'd have said" ive a better idea, just let me through"

 

[Siolag]

Didn't they identify that practice as one of the biggest contributors to slow pace and congestion/choke points?

Trouble is, if you wait past your tee time, there will be congestion behind. We are 7 minutes between slots.