rules on i phone gps

[evahakool]

Well Iam still confused with this ruling,here is a letter I read in Today's Golfer.

I was playing in the quarter final of a matchplay event and my opponent pointed out it is illegal to use a smartphone GPS app during a competition,as it has a weather app on it which measures temp and wind spead.I argued it was a general forecast for the area,but he got on the phone to the pro shop and I was d/q on the spot. I have since checked the rule with the egu and found out that you can use a smartphone or andriod app as a dmd. I was also correct that weather apps are ok to have on your phone as they don't in fact measure or gauge conditions.

 

[Foxholer]

Well Iam still confused with this ruling,here is a letter I read in Today's Golfer.

I was playing in the quarter final of a matchplay event and my opponent pointed out it is illegal to use a smartphone GPS app during a competition,as it has a weather app on it which measures temp and wind spead.I argued it was a general forecast for the area,but he got on the phone to the pro shop and I was d/q on the spot. I have since checked the rule with the egu and found out that you can use a smartphone or andriod app as a dmd. I was also correct that weather apps are ok to have on your phone as they don't in fact measure or gauge conditions.

A couple of queries on thos one then.

Was the actual phone model specified?

Was there a reply to the letter?

I believe that the DQ was correct, but, not untypically, for the wrong reason. I'm pretty sure that the EGU would have specified the limitations already specified - it cannot have a compass, inclinometer, thermometer or wind speed gauge built into the device. I'm almost cetain that at least a compass, and very probably an inclinometer, would be part of the device - so non-conforming, breadh of 14-3, therefore DQ.

However, the weather app requires access to the internet, rather than being built in, so its presence does not, in itself, make the device non-conforming. To add a little more strength to that argument, the Weather App is not, after all 'measuring' anything.

Just another example of the confusion that abounds in this area!
Agsin:
I believe the Flowchart and Guidelines that the R&A have produced should be posted prominently in Clubs (and in the Pro Shop) along with the statement along the lines that...
[Note]
There are currently no Smartphones known to comply. Until we are notified of any that do comply, use of any such phone will be a breach of 14-3 with the Penalty being Disqualification.
[/Note]

As a PS. Iphones pre 3GS (3G and lower) don't have a compass, inclinometer, or thermometer, so may be conforming, but you may need several batteries to get through a round!

Also, should a conforming Smartphone be identified, you would also need to identify the App that doesn't breach the Rule as well. For example, any App that has the facility to 'suggest' a club would be non-conforming.

 

[chrisd]

A couple of queries on thos one then.

Was the actual phone model specified?

Was there a reply to the letter?

I believe that the DQ was correct, but, not untypically, for the wrong reason. I'm pretty sure that the EGU would have specified the limitations already specified - it cannot have a compass, inclinometer, thermometer or wind speed gauge built into the device. I'm almost cetain that at least a compass, and very probably an inclinometer, would be part of the device - so non-conforming, breadh of 14-3, therefore DQ.

However, the weather app requires access to the internet, rather than being built in, so its presence does not, in itself, make the device non-conforming. To add a little more strength to that argument, the Weather App is not, after all 'measuring' anything.

Just another example of the confusion that abounds in this area!
Agsin:
I believe the Flowchart and Guidelines that the R&A have produced should be posted prominently in Clubs (and in the Pro Shop) along with the statement along the lines that...
[Note]
There are currently no Smartphones known to comply. Until we are notified of any that do comply, use of any such phone will be a breach of 14-3 with the Penalty being Disqualification.
[/Note]

As a PS. Iphones pre 3GS (3G and lower) don't have a compass, inclinometer, or thermometer, so may be conforming, but you may need several batteries to get through a round!

Also, should a conforming Smartphone be identified, you would also need to identify the App that doesn't breach the Rule as well. For example, any App that has the facility to 'suggest' a club would be non-conforming.

It would be a whole lot easier and cheaper if ALL devices were made legal IMO

These are devices that , currently, pros can't use, so we are different from them, and I feel that even if the device did shout "use a seven iron" the player still is, on average, unlikely to pull the shot off.

I have pulled several people up in exactly the same manner as we're saying here who swear blind that everyone at their club is allowed to use them. A change by the R and A would hardly harm any part of the golf game and would IMO make confrontation much less likely.

 

[Imurg]

Yet more proof that a significant number of people and Clubs are either ignorant of this rule or completely mis-interpret what is and isn't legal.
I agree with Chris, just make them all legal and save all this hassle.

 

[rulefan]

Yet more proof that a significant number of people and Clubs are either ignorant of this rule or completely mis-interpret what is and isn't legal.
I agree with Chris, just make them all legal and save all this hassle.

So using a compass (gradient measure) in a smartphone would then be legal but using a standalone compass (spirit level) would not?

 

[rulefan]

Well Iam still confused with this ruling,here is a letter I read in Today's Golfer.

I was playing in the quarter final of a matchplay event and my opponent pointed out it is illegal to use a smartphone GPS app during a competition,as it has a weather app on it which measures temp and wind spead.I argued it was a general forecast for the area,but he got on the phone to the pro shop and I was d/q on the spot. I have since checked the rule with the egu and found out that you can use a smartphone or andriod app as a dmd. I was also correct that weather apps are ok to have on your phone as they don't in fact measure or gauge conditions.

Curious, why with the EGU ?

But I had confirmation a couple of years ago from the R&A that weather apps are ok as they do not actually measure or gauge anything.

 

[Imurg]

So using compass in a smartphone would then be legal but using a standalone compass would not?

You would have to physically try to use the compass. If the phone is only being used for distance then where's the issue?
Can it not be a matter of trust?
We are trusted to not cheat every time we set foot on a course. If you are on one side of the fairway and I'm 50 yards away on the other, how can you tell if I'm improving my lie or moving my ball to a better position? Or how can I tell that you're not?
Use the phone as a DMD - you don't have to access anything else to use it as one so it shouldn't be an issue.

There are obviously many. many clubs and individuals who breach the "iPhone" rule. Either they take no notice of rule changes or they choose to ignore them.
Either way these occurances will continue to happen until iPhones are "legalised"...

 

[blackpuddinmonster]

There are obviously many. many clubs and individuals who breach the "iPhone" rule. Either they take no notice of rule changes or they choose to ignore them.
Either way these occurances will continue to happen until iPhones are "legalised"...

Or ALL dmds' are banned.

Thought i'd get in before SLH. :whoo:

 

[rulefan]

Can it not be a matter of trust?
There are obviously many. many clubs and individuals who breach the "iPhone" rule. Either they take no notice of rule changes or they choose to ignore them.
Either way these occurances will continue to happen until iPhones are "legalised"...

That could relate to many rules.

There are obviously many. many clubs and individuals who breach the "insert rule no here" rule. Either they take no notice of rule changes or they choose to ignore them.
Either way these occurrences will continue to happen until insert breach here is "legalised"

We will always have cheats.

But I must admit I'm not convinced that these functions or facilities actually benefit the golfer. I see DMDs as a time saver not a poor shot saver. The player still has to execute the stroke and I doubt the direction of the poles or the exact elevation of the tee are really that significant to most.

 

[woody69]

That could relate to many rules.

There are obviously many. many clubs and individuals who breach the "insert rule no here" rule. Either they take no notice of rule changes or they choose to ignore them.
Either way these occurrences will continue to happen until insert breach here is "legalised"

We will always have cheats.

But I must admit I'm not convinced that these functions or facilities actually benefit the golfer. I see DMDs as a time saver not a poor shot saver. The player still has to execute the stroke and I doubt the direction of the poles or the exact elevation of the tee are really that significant to most.

Indeed. So what that my next shot is South South West with an air temp of 15C and a wind speed of 4 mph. All I care about is the fact it's 150 yards to the centre of the green

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For example, any App that has the facility to 'suggest' a club would be non-conforming.

Which once upon a time - in a post far away - I noted that this is what will happen. And will happen very 'smartly' being linked to your practice game on a simulator - taking into account all sorts of weather conditions etc etc. It'll also be able to tell you your aim point for the shot you face according to different club selections it will select for you - the aim point taking into account your precise position on the course and your target (again if not the green a target it will recommend); results of shots you have played and it has logged that round; practice data downloaded from the internet; weather measurements (currently not allowed but argued over as being silly to be ruled out) etc etc etc. Relax the rules around in-play golf-aid technology and the pandora's box will be opened.

But that is another discussion - so yes - simply have a notice in the pro shop; on club notice boards and on the first tee stating that, until further notice, use of smartphones as golf-aid devices is prohibited. Full Stop. Savesd all the arguement and faffing about.

 

[duncan mackie]

simply have a notice in the pro shop; on club notice boards and on the first tee stating that, until further notice, use of smartphones as golf-aid devices is prohibited. Full Stop. Savesd all the arguement and faffing about.

must be an echo in the house - thought we had just been through all this!!!

you can't legally have that 'club rule' within the Rules of Golf.

but, also as already discussed over and over again, many clubs have many rules that aren't within the Rules of Golf

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

must be an echo in the house - thought we had just been through all this!!!

you can't legally have that 'club rule' within the Rules of Golf.

but, also as already discussed over and over again, many clubs have many rules that aren't within the Rules of Golf

Of course - you are quite right - damn - thought that on back of any confusion around smartphones I could sneak that through without anyone noticing. Ah well

 

[evahakool]

A couple of queries on thos one then.

Was the actual phone model specified?

Was there a reply to the letter?

I believe that the DQ was correct, but, not untypically, for the wrong reason. I'm pretty sure that the EGU would have specified the limitations already specified - it cannot have a compass, inclinometer, thermometer or wind speed gauge built into the device. I'm almost cetain that at least a compass, and very probably an inclinometer, would be part of the device - so non-conforming, breadh of 14-3, therefore DQ.

However, the weather app requires access to the internet, rather than being built in, so its presence does not, in itself, make the device non-conforming. To add a little more strength to that argument, the Weather App is not, after all 'measuring' anything.

Just another example of the confusion that abounds in this area!
Agsin:
I believe the Flowchart and Guidelines that the R&A have produced should be posted prominently in Clubs (and in the Pro Shop) along with the statement along the lines that...
[Note]
There are currently no Smartphones known to comply. Until we are notified of any that do comply, use of any such phone will be a breach of 14-3 with the Penalty being Disqualification.
[/Note]

As a PS. Iphones pre 3GS (3G and lower) don't have a compass, inclinometer, or thermometer, so may be conforming, but you may need several batteries to get through a round!

Also, should a conforming Smartphone be identified, you would also need to identify the App that doesn't breach the Rule as well. For example, any App that has the facility to 'suggest' a club would be non-conforming.

No the type of phone wasn't mentioned,I quoted the letter as printed.

The reply by T/G was "Avoid a storm with non-gauging weather apps"

I agree with others that the R and A should make all devices legal, why make any dmd legal to use (by local rule) and not a smartphone with wind or compass etc.

IMO you would gain more of a advantage useing a dmd than you would useing a smartphone with wind spead so I can't follow the logic with this ruling .

 

[rulefan]

IMO you would gain more of a advantage useing a dmd than you would useing a smartphone with wind spead so I can't follow the logic with this ruling .

A smartphone which includes a dmd facility and wind speed is arguably of more advantage than a dmd alone.

 

[SammmeBee]

Well Iam still confused with this ruling,here is a letter I read in Today's Golfer.

I was playing in the quarter final of a matchplay event and my opponent pointed out it is illegal to use a smartphone GPS app during a competition,as it has a weather app on it which measures temp and wind spead.I argued it was a general forecast for the area,but he got on the phone to the pro shop and I was d/q on the spot. I have since checked the rule with the egu and found out that you can use a smartphone or andriod app as a dmd. I was also correct that weather apps are ok to have on your phone as they don't in fact measure or gauge conditions.

From EGU Tournament Rules:

10. Distance-Measuring Devices (Rule 14–3 and Appendix IV, page 162)
In all England Golf Championships, a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. If, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g. gradient, windspeed, temperature, etc), the player is in breach of Rule 14–3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional function is actually used.

Note i: a. Trolleys with a distance-measuring capability: May be used provided any other features, which are non-conforming, are disabled (e.g. ‘taped over’ or switched off).
b. Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones with a distance- measuring application may not be used, unless the application is restricted to “distance only” and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features or applications.**
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF 10 a or b: Disqualification
Note ii: This Local Rule applies to team captains in both stroke play and match play championships. If a team captain uses a device in breach of this Local Rule, any distance information sought and received by a player from that team captain or given by that team captain and willingly received by a player, will result in the player’s disqualification.

Unless otherwise specified above or the breach is covered by a Rule of Golf, PENALTY FOR BREACH OF A LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes
**England Golf’s advice on the use of mobile phones as a distance-measuring device: Because of problems over whether a particular phone conforms to the Local Rule and, therefore, to protect players from the risk of disqualification, England Golf strongly recommends that mobile phones are not used as distance-measuring devices.

 

[evahakool]

A smartphone which includes a dmd facility and wind speed is arguably of more advantage than a dmd alone.

Maybe,but I play on a links course where it's often windy,I think a dmd with a wind speed might well hinder you rather than help,over the 4 hours or so a round will take the wind may well change speed or direction so you might have to monitor it several times during a round ,not sure how often it's updated but I think it's better to read the conditions of the course as you are playing rather than looking on a phone for advice.