Rule Query

[Integpin]

I was playing in a 4BBB and my partners putt was conceded. As I was nearest to his ball I putted it back to him. Our opponents said this was not allowed as I still had to putt and it could be construed as testing the green. I accepted the ruling but cannot find clarity on this supposed penalty shot. Anybody help with this rule.

 

[Foxholer]

Unless it's deliberate testing of the green, no rule is broken.
There's a very similar example to what you did in Rule 13.1e/1 deemed no breach.

 

[jim8flog]

Examples of actions that are not a breach of Rule 13.1e are when:

• A player concedes his or her opponent’s next putt and hits the ball away on the same line of play as the player may subsequently use but does not do so deliberately to learn information about the putting green.

So on that basis I also would not consider what you did as testing the green

 

[IslaG]

This is definitely one of those ‘you‘ll know it when you see it’ scenarios. Casually tapping a ball back to someone is a world away from taking a proper grip and putting stroke. I think that’s why the example uses the word “hits” not “putts”

 

[rulie]

This is definitely one of those ‘you‘ll know it when you see it’ scenarios. Casually tapping a ball back to someone is a world away from taking a proper grip and putting stroke. I think that’s why the example uses the word “hits” not “putts”

It is an intent based Rule, hence the use of "deliberate". If there is no intention to test the green, it doesn't matter whether the player takes a proper grip or not. Taking that proper grip etc might lead to more questioning, but wouldn't automatically mean a breach of the Rule.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

One of those, by the letter you haven't broken the rule, but why put yourself in the position, just scoop it up and avoid the possible hassle

 

[Whereditgo]

It is an intent based Rule, hence the use of "deliberate". If there is no intention to test the green, it doesn't matter whether the player takes a proper grip or not. Taking that proper grip etc might lead to more questioning, but wouldn't automatically mean a breach of the Rule.

But how is the intent or conversely lack of intent proven?

There is a guy at our place who would 100% try to pull you on that, he has tried to call me for testing the surface when I was wiping mud off the ball on the green, and another time accused another of cleaning the ball when he had lifted it from the fringe at the request of the said player as it was on the line he wished to putt along, the guy was holding the ball between thumb and forefinger!

 

[Deleted member 29109]

One of those, by the letter you haven't broken the rule, but why put yourself in the position, just scoop it up and avoid the possible hassle

Or even better. Don’t touch another players ball at all. If you must, then pick it up and pass it to the other player.

 

[Foxholer]

But how is the intent or conversely lack of intent proven?

There is a guy at our place who would 100% try to pull you on that, he has tried to call me for testing the surface when I was wiping mud off the ball on the green, and another time accused another of cleaning the ball when he had lifted it from the fringe at the request of the said player as it was on the line he wished to putt along, the guy was holding the ball between thumb and forefinger!

Two possible options...perhaps not for the faint-hearted.
1. You don't bother. Simply glare/laugh/ask if he's calling you a cheat etc.
2. Put a sufficiently large wager with a very public result - e.g. drinks to all members in the bar or public acknowledgement.
That will likely to stop that sort of behaviour - I've actually seen it happen, though only as a spectator/bystander.
Of course, having a Rule Book in your bag, or access to a Rules App settles most of that sort of drivel quite peacefully. Certainly would the one in the OP.

 

[Whereditgo]

Two possible options...perhaps not for the faint-hearted.
1. You don't bother. Simply glare/laugh/ask if he's calling you a cheat etc.
2. Put a sufficiently large wager with a very public result - e.g. drinks to all members in the bar or public acknowledgement.
That will likely to stop that sort of behaviour - I've actually seen it happen, though only as a spectator/bystander.
Of course, having a Rule Book in your bag, or access to a Rules App settles most of that sort of drivel quite peacefully. Certainly would the one in the OP.

Didn't phase me one bit, just snarled at him and called him one of Smiffy's favourite names. The other instance did cause a bit of an issue.

 

[rulie]

But how is the intent or conversely lack of intent proven?

There is a guy at our place who would 100% try to pull you on that, he has tried to call me for testing the surface when I was wiping mud off the ball on the green, and another time accused another of cleaning the ball when he had lifted it from the fringe at the request of the said player as it was on the line he wished to putt along, the guy was holding the ball between thumb and forefinger!

This "guy" is not a referee, tell him that or ignore him.

 

[jim8flog]

But how is the intent or conversely lack of intent proven?

There is a guy at our place who would 100% try to pull you on that, he has tried to call me for testing the surface when I was wiping mud off the ball on the green,

This is something i have heard on several occasions. My advice is politely ask them to read the rule book online

for reference

Interpretations 13.1e/1
Examples of actions that are not a breach of Rule 13.1e are when:

A player rubs a ball on the putting green to clean off mud.

 

[AussieKB]

Played in a competition yesterday morning, an all day comp, as I have been away for over 30 days I went and read the Local Rules.

It stated that preferred lies would begin on the 30th June.

As I was putting out on the 14th green (near car park) a friend came over and advised that preferred lies were now in place, I told him that according to the Local Rules Board they were not, and they would begin on the 30th June.

He was adamant, so I said to go and have a look.

Fellow competitor asked if we can now take a preferred lie, my reply was no if they did not want to be DQ'd.

I could see that the afternoon players had started teeing off, so they could not have a am/pm competition.

When we finished and I checked the Local Rules Board, and it had been changed from 30th June to 30th May.

So the morning players and some of the afternoon players were playing under a different Rule.

If I want to take this further, what is my best procedure ?

 

[rulie]

Played in a competition yesterday morning, an all day comp, as I have been away for over 30 days I went and read the Local Rules.

It stated that preferred lies would begin on the 30th June.

As I was putting out on the 14th green (near car park) a friend came over and advised that preferred lies were now in place, I told him that according to the Local Rules Board they were not, and they would begin on the 30th June.

He was adamant, so I said to go and have a look.

Fellow competitor asked if we can now take a preferred lie, my reply was no if they did not want to be DQ'd.

I could see that the afternoon players had started teeing off, so they could not have a am/pm competition.

When we finished and I checked the Local Rules Board, and it had been changed from 30th June to 30th May.

So the morning players and some of the afternoon players were playing under a different Rule.

If I want to take this further, what is my best procedure ?

Talk to the Committee in charge. Preferred lies should (must?) not be introduced during a round.

 

[salfordlad]

When we finished and I checked the Local Rules Board, and it had been changed from 30th June to 30th May.

So the morning players and some of the afternoon players were playing under a different Rule.

If I want to take this further, what is my best procedure ?

My serious advice here is arm yourself with your favourite beverage, take a good slurp and look for the funny side of another Committee screw up. It happens. This is unlikely to repeat and most volunteer Committees would already be feeling bad about their screw up.

 

[salfordlad]

I was playing in a 4BBB and my partners putt was conceded. As I was nearest to his ball I putted it back to him. Our opponents said this was not allowed as I still had to putt and it could be construed as testing the green. I accepted the ruling but cannot find clarity on this supposed penalty shot. Anybody help with this rule.

You have your answer above. My only add is there is a nice video of this scenario in the R&A quizzes, if you do them a few times (it's a randomized selection process from their question set), you are likely to find it.