Reducing carbon emissions

[Deleted member 21784]

Hopefully, government(s) will only wind the incentives down once manufacturers are producing so few fossil-fueled vehicles that the 'cost balance' shifts to make them uncompetitive. Plus they could also apply 'penalties' to fossil-fueled vehicles as an additional disincentive.

On the negative side of electric vehicles.....
Currently, most of UK's electricity is still produced from fossil fuels! So until electricity generation is replaced by 'renewables', the overall effect of movement to electric vehicles is reduced!

Interesting article here

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inside.../ice-vs-ev-inefficient-combustion-engine/amp/

Ev are far more efficient at using energy than ice cars .. so even if the grid took forever to switch the efficiency of the cars would mean less fuel used to travel

Average ice 40% efficient
Ev 86%

Apparently a 33kw battery is the same energy as a gallon (us gallon) of fuel .. so let's go with 45mpg for sake of argument 33kw is roughly 120 miles

So in a Ice car the theory is for the same energy you go under half the distance ..

However an ice car can go a hell of a lot further it just holds more "energy" for want of a better word

The grid change is happening slowly but is happening

Norway cable is complete that will get us hydro power from them

Ideal word everyone has a battery on their house with solar and charges from them but this isn't an ideal world

 

[cliveb]

Whether or not you agree with their means of drawing attention to the ’cause’, it is clear that the Insulate Britain protestors (I do not consider them clowns, they are activists) are 100% right…their cause is actually our cause and us just hanging around waiting for the government to come up with something on the insulation front is not good enough.

I called them clowns because while the point they are making is right, the way they've gone about it has been catastrophically counter-productive.
They've made enemies of large numbers of the general public. I really believe they've actually harmed their cause through their actions.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Ideal word everyone has a battery on their house with solar and charges from them but this isn't an ideal world

I'm pretty certain this will gradually become the norm. However, the manufacturing process (currently) is not exactly environmentally friendly! This needs to be improved in order to 'complete' the conversion to renewables.
But the entire industry is very young - effectively only about a decade or so old. Compare that with the internal combustion based industry of a similar age, compared to now, and it should be obvious what sort of progress can be made!

 

[SocketRocket]

The call for these new heating and driving technologies tend to be made and enacted by the well off, people with low incomes (and there are a great deal of them) couldn't afford any of the systems being discussed here, also you can't have ground source heat pumps etc in a high rise apartment block unless the system is massive and unaffordable.

We need a plan that allows everyone in the country/world to be able to tap in to environment friendly and affordable forms of heating and transport; otherwise it's going to be another plan like solar panels that make the lives of the better off easier and the poor having to subsidise it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I called them clowns because while the point they are making is right, the way they've gone about it has been catastrophically counter-productive.
They've made enemies of large numbers of the general public. I really believe they've actually harmed their cause through their actions.

They may well have done…however anyone with a brain now listening to the discussions on heat pumps to replace gas boilers, and now understanding that house insulation must come first - will realise that that their intent of drawing public attention to the criticality and urgency of the insulation pre-requisite through disruption was actually valid, even if the means was so very disruptive; that especially being the case given that the long term impact of the road protests is for the vast majority of us not lasting in any significant way if at all, yet the urgency for us all is great. We are now fully aware if we so choose to become so.

But of course I fully accept that the inconvenience and impact for a few may have been significant, and that is very unfortunate. I would hope that Insulate Britain understand that they have made their point and that that point is now widely understood, and so do not need to resume their road protests.

 

[Pants]

When I was a lad many, many years ago, I learnt that petrol was a by-product of fractional distillation of petroleum and, if it wasn't for the internal combustion engine (and other types of engines designed to use it as fuel), it would basically be a waste product with few other uses. I think that that is still the case today??
What is going to happen to all the billions of litres of petrol being produced if no longer needed? Pour it away?? Burn it - oh, hang on ...

 

[SocketRocket]

When I was a lad many, many years ago, I learnt that petrol was a by-product of fractional distillation of petroleum and, if it wasn't for the internal combustion engine (and other types of engines designed to use it as fuel), it would basically be a waste product with few other uses. I think that that is still the case today??
What is going to happen to all the billions of litres of petrol being produced if no longer needed? Pour it away?? Burn it - oh, hang on ...

Leave it in the ground.

 

[Pants]

But then you won't have butane, propane, naphtha, paraffin, diesel, lubricating oils, fuel oil, bitumen, etc. All "distilled" at the same time as the petrol (gasoline) from your crude oil.

As I said, petrol is a by-product of the process and if it isn't going to be used in ice's then most of it is waste.

Of course, I could well be wrong about this - it was rather a long time ago and memory sometimes plays tricks. I'm sure there are some on here who will put me right.

 

[Foxholer]

...
As I said, petrol is a by-product of the process and if it isn't going to be used in ice's then most of it is waste.

My understanding is that about 75% of petroleum becomes/is gasoline or diesel - so not 'by-products! It's the other products of the process (e.g ethane, butane, propane) that will need to be found/made elsewhere as/when petroleum extraction is reduced. There's already indications/evidence that these can be produced biologically, so while cost may rise, I'm certain that there will be alternative sources available before petroleum sources dry up!
Of course, phasing out coal driven electricity production is an even more urgent requirement! According to stats I've seen, 40% of US CO2 emissions are from electricity production, of which 90-95% is from coal driven plants! 'Only' 33% of US CO2 emission is from transportation of goods/people. The burning of coal produces huge amounts of other pollurion too! France and Germany (though not Poland) are actually dramatically reducing coal driven electricity production.

 

[woofers]

I can’t argue with the sentiment about “doing our bit” but the UK efforts will be insignificant in global terms until China, USA, India and Brazil (deforestation?) take decarbonisation seriously.
In the meantime we should also spend and prepare for dealing with the effects of climate change, be that new build or better maintenance of existing infrastructure. If it is coming let’s be ready.

 

[srixon 1]

Reading this thread had me wondering how much pollution we give of after we have made our final putt and the lid has been closed. A bit of a long read, but who would have known that there are so many different ways of getting to the next place in a way that gives off less CO2 than the fiery furnace.
https://www.nationalgeographic.co.u...2019/11/environmental-toll-cremating-dead/amp

 

[bobmac]

I know it's easy to have a swipe at other countries but I think China is trying to change...

''China is the world’s hungriest consumer of energy worldwide — demanding the energetic equivalent of almost 3.3 billion tonnes of oil last year. Since 2011, it has burnt more coal than all other countries combined. And its reliance on this fossil fuel adds up: China emits around one-quarter of the world’s greenhouse gases, the largest share of any country.
China is also the world’s most prolific producer of wind energy, with the capacity to make more than twice as much as the second-largest generator, the United States. And it has about one-third of the world’s solar-generation capacity, building more systems last year than any other country.''

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02464-5

 

[williamalex1]

When these future bans are mooted does anyone else do mental arithmetic to work out if they’ll still be alive or if they can just ignore it.....?

Thanks for cheering me up Kaz

 

[spongebob59]

Spoke to our local heating engineer over the fence last night, said hydrogen/gas hybrid will come in before heat pumps, although he wasn't sure of the wisdom in using electricity to generate gas and then burn it ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

For those who are all over this type of thing:

We have very thick loft insulation (snow on the roof does not melt prematurely for example and if I go in the loft the temp change is marked)
The wall cavities were done before we moved in 12 year ago
The windows are double glazed
There are no obvious drafts
The boiler is a modern combi although 11yrs old

With all the chat about insulation, are we missing anything? I don't think we are but I wanted to double check in case something new has sneaked in to the game.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

For those who are all over this type of thing:

We have very thick loft insulation (snow on the roof does not melt prematurely for example and if I go in the loft the temp change is marked)
The wall cavities were done before we moved in 12 year ago
The windows are double glazed
There are no obvious drafts
The boiler is a modern combi although 11yrs old

With all the chat about insulation, are we missing anything? I don't think we are but I wanted to double check in case something new has sneaked in to the game.

See if you can get hold of a thermal imaging camera and point it at your house.

Double glazing is good, but the frames can be leaky depending on how well they were fit. Thermal bridging is an issue in older DG.

There comes a point where the gains aren't worth the cost or effort.

 

[williamalex1]

For those who are all over this type of thing:

We have very thick loft insulation (snow on the roof does not melt prematurely for example and if I go in the loft the temp change is marked)
The wall cavities were done before we moved in 12 year ago
The windows are double glazed
There are no obvious drafts
The boiler is a modern combi although 11yrs old

With all the chat about insulation, are we missing anything? I don't think we are but I wanted to double check in case something new has sneaked in to the game.

We have much the same insulation except no cavity wall insulation.
But the wife defeats the purpose , she opens windows and doors for fresh air especially before during and after cooking.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

See if you can get hold of a thermal imaging camera and point it at your house.

Double glazing is good, but the frames can be leaky depending on how well they were fit. Thermal bridging is an issue in older DG.

There comes a point where the gains aren't worth the cost or effort.

Every so often the tv will show a house that uses one of these and it shows the weak spots, as you describe. It looks a great idea but it isn't the sort of thing you can easily get hold of, I actually have no idea how you could.

We do have large full length windows in the living room that we are thinking of getting replaced by bricks halfway up then windows. Full length windows have the potential to leak heat but obviously that gizmo would confirm this, or not.

 

[YandaB]

Every so often the tv will show a house that uses one of these and it shows the weak spots, as you describe. It looks a great idea but it isn't the sort of thing you can easily get hold of, I actually have no idea how you could.

We do have large full length windows in the living room that we are thinking of getting replaced by bricks halfway up then windows. Full length windows have the potential to leak heat but obviously that gizmo would confirm this, or not.

I'd never thought of it either, a quick google search shows that you can hire one for about £70 for the day (not too bad but not cheap either):

https://www.red-current.com/thermal-imaging-camera-hire
https://www.jewson.co.uk/p/flir-i3-thermal-imaging-camera-JTH07250
Are 2 sites that were near the top of the results.

My house is a 100 year old converted bungalow, whilst the insulated double walls and double glazed windows might not be too bad, I imagine that the roof will be glowing with just some of that cellotex stuff between the rafters :-( Not sure what else can be done about that?

 

[cliveb]

This recent report makes for depressing reading:

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/10/20/...renewables-warn-french-government-scientists/

Brief summary: as oil becomes more difficult to extract, it's taking more and more energy to get it out of the ground, and therefore becomes less and less economic to produce. Within 15 years, the oil industry will begin to collapse because nobody will be able to afford to buy their product. The same is happening to natural gas, albeit somewhat more slowly.

Good thing, you might conclude. But the problem is that this could happen so fast that we end up in a world with limited energy supply and, as a result, no ability to build renewable replacements.

Ironically, this could mean that the global economy collapses before the climate apocalypse happens.