Realistically - how many yards gain updating by 10 years??

Backsticks

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Storylines.

Latest Hack it Out podcast is a good laugh and has three components of the golf industry having a good laugh at MOI and driver development. Its all about storylines.

Crossfield is just sufficiently maverick to go very close to openly letting the cat out of the bag. The manufacturers must hate him.

They are well lawyered up though I guess, and careful to sell storylines rather than performance. Turbulators, because, aerodynamics. AI, because, well its the word if the year. 10k, because, ah, we had it before, but didnt market it, so lets do it now. Carbon face. Because. Well, nobody really knows, but still, carbon face.

But 10 yards longer ? Nope.
More forgiving ? Nope.
 

Orikoru

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Storylines.

Latest Hack it Out podcast is a good laugh and has three components of the golf industry having a good laugh at MOI and driver development. Its all about storylines.

Crossfield is just sufficiently maverick to go very close to openly letting the cat out of the bag. The manufacturers must hate him.

They are well lawyered up though I guess, and careful to sell storylines rather than performance. Turbulators, because, aerodynamics. AI, because, well its the word if the year. 10k, because, ah, we had it before, but didnt market it, so lets do it now. Carbon face. Because. Well, nobody really knows, but still, carbon face.

But 10 yards longer ? Nope.
More forgiving ? Nope.
Didn't massively disagree with any of that until the last line. Drivers are definitely more forgiving than ten years ago. You only have to look at data on toe and heel strikes from each driver to see that.
 

Redtraveller

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Just upgraded from a Sim 2 Max to a Stealth 2. I doubt there’s much difference but having got a good deal on my Stealth 2 and selling the old one for a good price it cost me about £70 to upgrade. Rather than being 4 behind the latest model I’m now one behind so when I next want to change it makes less of a dent so that’s another aspect to look from
 

sunshine

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Just upgraded from a Sim 2 Max to a Stealth 2. I doubt there’s much difference but having got a good deal on my Stealth 2 and selling the old one for a good price it cost me about £70 to upgrade. Rather than being 4 behind the latest model I’m now one behind so when I next want to change it makes less of a dent so that’s another aspect to look from
Upgrade driver every 2 years because it spreads out the cost vs. an upgrade every 10 years. Quality you should get a job at TM 🤣
 

Backsticks

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The mistake here is using the word 'upgrade' in the first place.
White head instead of piano black. Matt black head instead of white. Red face instead of grey. Blue face instead of red.
Maybe 'restyling' is more the word ?
 

Springveldt

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Storylines.

Latest Hack it Out podcast is a good laugh and has three components of the golf industry having a good laugh at MOI and driver development. Its all about storylines.

Crossfield is just sufficiently maverick to go very close to openly letting the cat out of the bag. The manufacturers must hate him.

They are well lawyered up though I guess, and careful to sell storylines rather than performance. Turbulators, because, aerodynamics. AI, because, well its the word if the year. 10k, because, ah, we had it before, but didnt market it, so lets do it now. Carbon face. Because. Well, nobody really knows, but still, carbon face.

But 10 yards longer ? Nope.
More forgiving ? Nope.
Pretty sure TaylorMade do, I remember they stopped sending him stuff years ago as they didn't like his reviews for telling people that nothing much has changed.

Just listened to the podcast on my lunchtime dog walk and I loved the story about MOI and how the R&A basically said in their testing that having 25% more made little difference so just go ahead and keep it under this arbitrary limit.
 

Voyager EMH

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No, not really. It cost me £70 quid and it’ll cost approx the same in 2/3 years. Rather that than paying £300 quid.

Each to their own
£25 in 2010 for my driver.
I'm on the lookout for one for about £45 this year.

I've been looking at what drivers like mine fetch on Ebay. They seem to go for between £20 and £35.
So £15 every 14/15 years seems about right to shell out on drivers. (£1 per year?)

Each to their own.
 

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The manufacturers, and golfers, went through a period 20-25 years ago, as large Ti drivers developped, of truly delivering year on year improvements. Unprecedented since the change from hickory probably.
The growth to 460cc Ti period is in the collective memory of many golfers too. And became built into the narrative of the industry and presented as still in force now even to those who werent buying clubs in that era. Pushing the manufacturers to try to hang on to that illusion with ever more creative stories. The manufacturers, and golfers to a lesser degree, became addicted to the upgrade drug. And are unable to give it up even when it is no longer available.
 

Voyager EMH

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The manufacturers, and golfers, went through a period 20-25 years ago, as large Ti drivers developped, of truly delivering year on year improvements. Unprecedented since the change from hickory probably.
The growth to 460cc Ti period is in the collective memory of many golfers too. And became built into the narrative of the industry and presented as still in force now even to those who werent buying clubs in that era. Pushing the manufacturers to try to hang on to that illusion with ever more creative stories. The manufacturers, and golfers to a lesser degree, became addicted to the upgrade drug. And are unable to give it up even when it is no longer available.
They have to make ever more creative cosmetic designs to coincide with those stories.
Golfers have a need to be satisfied.
That need is, "I want a new one."
 

Backsticks

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Pretty sure TaylorMade do, I remember they stopped sending him stuff years ago as they didn't like his reviews for telling people that nothing much has changed.

Just listened to the podcast on my lunchtime dog walk and I loved the story about MOI and how the R&A basically said in their testing that having 25% more made little difference so just go ahead and keep it under this arbitrary limit.
He is really itching to tell the SLDR story. Id say its a hoot and would make a great deep dive podcast into the madcap world of trying to improve something that had regulated to ban anything that truly does deliver improved performance.
 

Voyager EMH

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£25 in 2010 for my driver.
I'm on the lookout for one for about £45 this year.

I've been looking at what drivers like mine fetch on Ebay. They seem to go for between £20 and £35.
So £15 every 14/15 years seems about right to shell out on drivers. (£1 per year?)

Each to their own.
This is what a driver identical to mine fetched this year.


I like the idea of getting all my money back or more. Of course, inflation has eaten a lot of that away, however.
Rogues and Epics are still going for above £50, but if it includes a nice headcover, maybe I'll upgrade by 14 years, for a nett outlay of £30-£35.
My previous statement was unrealistic, I apologise.
It is more like £2 per year over 14 years to upgrade.
But in 2010 I bought a 6 year old driver and now I'm looking at 4-5 year old drivers just the same.

But the yardage gain and forgiveness gain over 14 years must be huge. Very exciting!
 
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Orikoru

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He is really itching to tell the SLDR story. Id say its a hoot and would make a great deep dive podcast into the madcap world of trying to improve something that had regulated to ban anything that truly does deliver improved performance.
Maybe it's not the same thing, but I'm sure I heard the 'loft up' campaign was not originally intended - it was because they accidentally made it so low-spinning that most amateurs couldn't get the ball in the air, so they were kind of forced to up the loft since they were too far down the road of making them. I might have misremembered though - and that might not be what Crossfield is thinking of.
 
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Maybe it's not the same thing, but I'm sure I heard the 'loft up' campaign was not originally intended - it was because they accidentally made it so low-spinning that most amateurs couldn't get the ball in the air, so they were kind of forced to up the loft since they were too far down the road of making them. I might have misremembered though - and that might not be what Crossfield is thinking of.
I’d be surprised if Crossfield was thinking at all.
 

Backsticks

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Maybe it's not the same thing, but I'm sure I heard the 'loft up' campaign was not originally intended - it was because they accidentally made it so low-spinning that most amateurs couldn't get the ball in the air, so they were kind of forced to up the loft since they were too far down the road of making them. I might have misremembered though - and that might not be what Crossfield is thinking of.
Yes, thats the gist. It seems the behind the scenes panic and scramble for a solution - and story to market - was comedy gold.
 

Backsticks

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Just one mans experience.

Bit of experimentation with a friend this evening at the range, hitting his G425, which he is urging me to move to from my R11, and brought along his old SLDR as well to compare. Didnt have my PRGR, but using his Voicecaddy launch monitor. Numbers in the same range as my PRGR, though was a mph or so slower than my norm. Not sure if that was the monitor or me a bit tired and jumping straight from the car after a days work. The SLDR was a 9.5 turned up to 11, the R11 and 425 both 10.5 standard. Hit about 20 balls with each. Swing speed 100-101 with all, for ball speed speed 143-147mph. Same range with all three clubs. Average total distance for each the app had that uploads each hit (nice feature compared to PRGR): SLDR 256.0, G425 255.6, R11s 254.2. Quite surprised how tight they were, but I guess with enough balls hit they will tend to the same point. Variance also tight - SLDR was 250.4 to 261.3. Similar for the others. So no practical difference really. Each was as easy to hit as the next, and left/right had no discernible difference although the monitor didnt measure for that. He hit about 20 balls total with all three clubs so not as big a sample, but numbers were equally similar for him, a 155 ish ball speed 5 HI, though he was still saying he preferred the G425 for the forgiveness. I could equally happily have played with any of them.

So sticking with my R11 (plus, it has adjustable sole plate technology which seems really hard to find these days! Take that modern drivers).
And my speed training...
 

Voyager EMH

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I saw an Epic Flash and kept my eye on it all week.
It was fairly worn on the sole and ending last night, I hoped that it might go little noticed.
But bids came in and it went too high for me to consider.


But the good news is that my 2004/5 Cobra F Speed appears to be going up in value

f speed sale 2024.jpg

So I am still hopeful that upgrading my driver by about 15 years might be doable for about £30 to £35 sometime in the next 12 months.
I live in exciting times.
 
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