RC Spectator blinded

[thesheriff]

This is a freak incident and should be treated as such. No drastic measures like nets or restricting movement of galleries. Simply make sure spectators in the landing zone are warned in time to allow them to protect themselves. It seems so darned simple to me and the fact that current measures in this area is inexcusable.

So fore shouts don't seem to be effective and raised arms sometimes aren't seen. Link the marshals on the fairway to those on the tee. If any ball is hit offline, let the marshals down the fairway know and they can tell galleries the ball is coming their way .

 

[Deleted member 21258]

To me its simple 'someone or a collection of people/company are liable'.

The chances of this happening are very high, is it not low or freaky or unlikely to happen that some are saying on the thread. A lot of spectators are getting hit at a lot of events, that is why it is likely to happen(ie. an injury) and the organisors are not doing enough to stop it(if indeed you can).

Liability therefore rests with them/player/tour/venue etc. If they don't have insurance to cover this kind of matter, then it should be a condition of entering/holding an event.

Terrible for the lady to lose sight in one eye.

 

[PJ87]

You would assume she was watching the shot, and therefore even if she didn't hear the shout she would have seen the arm waving and the marshall with the flag? I don't know, I'm just playing devils advocate

Or she was watching the green.... with people blocking off her vision of the tee.. she just seeing the balls land and couldn’t hear over the noise

She is now blind in one eye

That’s the only thing that matters .. she should be looked after

 

[user2010]

Here? Hear, for all the pedants!

Whilst you're correcting your spelling mistakes, sort out your spelling of 'Odyssey' in your sig, for all us 'pedants', there's a good chap.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Just seen the Koepka interview from the Dunhill today and he looks cut up and desperately upset. Of course it's devastating the lady lost her sight, and I hope she gets sufficient ongoing treatment and help going forward adjusting. I have said on here before sooner or later someone would get injured and take legal action. A shame it happened of course and I assumed it would be in the US at a PGA even given their litigious culture. Would the venue, the organisers etc not have taken specific insurance out against such an event? Does a thing even exist?

 

[drdel]

When I've worked self-employed at others premises I've always assumed I've been covered under their public liability cover...
Maybe I've made the wrong assumption... Or, the advice I took was incorrect...

Unfortunately you're wrong. Get insured.

 

[drdel]

To all those who say that, as an adult, she had a choice. I wonder, since many parents/grandparents take young children - often standing themat the front to get a good view.- would you still take the same stance?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It was going to happen sooner or later and I really hope they find a way to restore her sight. For me it’s hard to put blame on the players “IF” they shout fore - even though it’s hard to prob hear they should still shout.

I hope the ET and USGA combine to compensate the lady - it would be the correct action

 

[drdel]

If the report by the BBC is to believed it looks to me as if she's lawyered up!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

To all those who say that, as an adult, she had a choice. I wonder, since many parents/grandparents take young children - often standing themat the front to get a good view.- would you still take the same stance?

If parents and grandparents are doing that then they are taking responsibility, they are the adults.

I've seen the lady interviewed on the BBC website. She plays golf but her arguments are largely based on someone having no idea about golf. They don't hold water.

 

[sev112]

To me its simple 'someone or a collection of people/company are liable'.
.

Outside of contract, and outside of criminal law, I would guess the this would be a claim under the law or tort, and specifically negligence

If that was in UK, they would have to prove all 3 of : duty of care owed, breach of that duty, and direct causation from that beach.

So to start off the injured party would have to prove that they were owed a duty of care to be protected from intended fast flying golf balls.
Now for members of the public outside the course walking along the road that is probably quite easy to prove.
However a paying spectator inside the course I am not so sure.
If you don’t prove that duty exists, then the rest of the case fails.
There is some UK case law on this involving the duty a golfer owes to other golfers on the course because they are engaged in different games say, but I don’t think it is the same
I just don’t see the owed duty of care to spectators for golf balls flying as they normally do in golf competitions

I’m very very sorry for the poor woman whatever, and I hope there is an easy remedy from multiple parties.
Last year my teenage daughter was hit in the face from a flying golf ball from a pitch and putt course we were cycling past on holiday. Massive amounts of blood, broken nose, several hours in French A&E, and probably saved by her sunglasses frames breaking and dissipating the force somewhat.
We were extremely extremely lucky that it wasn’t an inch either side whereby it would have hit the glass right in front of her eye and god knows what would have happened.

 

[PJ87]

To all those who say that, as an adult, she had a choice. I wonder, since many parents/grandparents take young children - often standing themat the front to get a good view.- would you still take the same stance?

When my dad and I went to the British masters at the grove I saw a baby in a push chair
I was telling my boss he goes that’s disgusting the kid doesn’t know when to shut up (doesn’t like kids) I was more disgusted that the parents would think it’s safe to bring their child..im sure my 1 year old understand what fore means and would be completely unhurt if one landed in her buggy

Selfish

 

[Fish]

Freak accident imo, people are gathered specifically by choice where they believe the players will drive to, and by the same token, even miss the fairway, so it's everyone's personal choice they have entered a course where there are balls (missiles) flying around with no guarantee they wont be wayward.

Shouts of Fore are all well and good, but over 300 yards away and crowds not really paying attention to whats happening on the tee so far away, the shouts of Fore are pretty much a non entity in these circumstances. However, the paddles always go up indicating a left/right shot down to a steward who will also be in or around the area the players are potentially driving to, so there is a mechanism to warn the crowds to take cover, no different to how we do immediately when we hear shouts on a course, but, did that happen, and did the women take cover (duck/crouch), was she even paying attention, or was she simply waiting for the players to arrive in that given area, thus the ball hitting her in the eye.

I've not read the posts other than on this page, but this women was agreeing initially that it was a freak accident and no blame could be apportioned, now some legal bods have no doubt got hold of her and it's obvious she's going to milk this for every penny she can!

Now its a terrible accident, but it's an accident period, there can be no blame apportioned for an accident as there is no intention and all parties are there by choice, and everyone knowing full well that these accidents, but normally to a much lesser kind of injury, do happen and can occur.

I wish her well, but I have personal insurance for injuries caused by accidents of any kind, and if I was going to any events where accidents can occur, then I would suggest everyone should have adequate cover and not then try the blame game.

I can see that everyone buying tickets in the future will have to sign a disclaimer that you are entering a course at your own risk and you waive any right to claim against any individual or organisation should an accident occur.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

From the interviews I’ve seen from this woman she isn’t blaming the game, it seems to be more about the reaction to her being hit and the safety procedures that are in place on the course when these accidents happen.
I, like a few on here, have done marshalling at big events and Marshalls come in all shapes and sizes from around Europe and all with different experience.
Each hole has a team leader who has a radio, if he or she was on the tee when Koepka took his drive then the Marshall closest to the woman would of have had no way of communicating that it was a medical emergency rather than a simple bruised limb.
Maybe the selection of Marshalls and training given will have to be reviewed.

 

[PJ87]

Wouldn’t surprise me if nothing changes and they just pay off people who have injuries like this

Sometimes they outweigh the cost of training and implementing the changes over the chances of it happening and just pay em off

Seen a few examples of this kind of thinking over the years

 

[jim8flog]

I do feel very sorry for the lady.

I would have thought that if the comp was held in this country they would have to have events insurance. It then comes down to exactly what is covered.

Maybe these people do get paid out but have to sign a non disclosure agreement so we never get to hear about and it so it reduces the amount of claims in future.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Taken from the BBC website interview

Mrs Remande said she was "very angry" about a number of issues:

• She believes the marshals should have warned that a ball was coming as spectators would not have heard shouts of 'fore' from the tee.
• She says the marshals did not communicate that players were attempting to drive for the green instead of laying up on the fairway.
• She claims officials did not check on her or visit her after she was taken to hospital.
• She alleges there was a lack of safety warnings on the ticket and signage around the venue.

If you take them in order:

1/ There were shouts of fore and marshalls waving flags. After that it is up to the spectator to be alert. She may not have seen or heard those warnings but there is a limit to what is achievable
2/ Seriously? Big hitting players may or may not take on a driveable par 4. Should the marshalls have spoken to the caddies to see what their players were going to do. Golfing nous should answer that one. Remember, she plays golf.
3/ The European Tour dispute this, clearly we can not say either way
4/ ????? At a golf tournament there may have been golf balls flying around. Who could have seen that coming? That is nonsense. Again, remember she plays golf

She may have some legitimate complaints but at least 3 of those above are not in that category.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Outside of contract, and outside of criminal law, I would guess the this would be a claim under the law or tort, and specifically negligence

If that was in UK, they would have to prove all 3 of : duty of care owed, breach of that duty, and direct causation from that beach.

So to start off the injured party would have to prove that they were owed a duty of care to be protected from intended fast flying golf balls.
Now for members of the public outside the course walking along the road that is probably quite easy to prove.
However a paying spectator inside the course I am not so sure.
If you don’t prove that duty exists, then the rest of the case fails.
There is some UK case law on this involving the duty a golfer owes to other golfers on the course because they are engaged in different games say, but I don’t think it is the same
I just don’t see the owed duty of care to spectators for golf balls flying as they normally do in golf competitions

It is interesting isn't it, yeah tort would be one option. Also would be interesting if there is a claim under contract as a ticket has been purchased and one aspect of the contract must be to put in place suitable safety measures to protect the spectators. I still think it is not just one claim against the player, think it would include the event organiser and course if necessary. I do not normally agree with the claim culture that we now have, but this safety matter is just not being dealt with and it should be... At the very least there should be a speaker at a reasonable place that warns the crowd.

Also will be interesting if the government shows an interest in this matter under their health and safety laws. The matter needs to be dealt with and better measures put in place. Remember this kind of ball hitting the spectator is happening multiple times at an event, it is just not acceptable or suitable for a major event IMHO.

When I have been to events, you can barely see the players at 300 odd yards, let alone hear them(due to back ground noise), so the shout of fore and waving of a little paddle by a marshall up by the tee is just worthless. You also can not normally follow the ball either if down the fairway. That said I do not normally stand at driving distance due to this issue but.....

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'll not be following the Dunhill, will the Masters next week. It will be interesting to see if spectators are prevented from standing in certain areas following this or whether it is business as usual. May be you will only get standing areas in future at tees and greens? Sad if that is the case but perhaps that is the next step.

 

[garyinderry]

I'll not be following the Dunhill, will the Masters next week. It will be interesting to see if spectators are prevented from standing in certain areas following this or whether it is business as usual. May be you will only get standing areas in future at tees and greens? Sad if that is the case but perhaps that is the next step.

Pretty much guarantee it will business as usual.

You really think they will radically change how a golf tournament operates when they couldn't implement the simplest of health and safety procedures to keep spectators safe.