Qualifying comps with "lift and clean in the rough" in place??

[IanM]

Our club is operating "preferred lies on fairway and lift, clean and replace on exact spot" in the rough.

Still operating qualifying competitions. Is this allowed?

 

[bobmac]

The rule as I remember was...
Lift, clean and place on the fairway
Lift, clean and drop in the rough
Mind you, that was 150 years ago

 

[YandaB]

I beleive so, Appendix H in the GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I has the following in section GH/4 Local Rule for Lift, Clean and Replace (page 26):

Acceptable Scores are permitted when the Local Rule (Model Local Rule E2) allowing cleaning of the ball in the General Area is in place.

 

[rulefan]

Our club is operating "preferred lies on fairway and lift, clean and replace on exact spot" in the rough.

Still operating qualifying competitions. Is this allowed?

Yes

Dispension has now been given for Preferred Lies (ie Lift, clean and place within 6" on closely mown areas).
The muddy ball Local Rule is always available to clubs if justified. (ie Lift, clean and replace (on the original spot)).

 

[apj0524]

I beleive so, Appendix H in the GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I has the following in section GH/4 Local Rule for Lift, Clean and Replace (page 26):

Acceptable Scores are permitted when the Local Rule (Model Local Rule E2) allowing cleaning of the ball in the General Area is in place.

But only when cut to fareway or less, no in the rough ??

 

[YandaB]

But only when cut to fareway or less, no in the rough ??

No, it says general area for this one. Preferred lies is fairway only though.

 

[Colin L]

The difference is that with preferred lies you get to lift your ball out of a grotty lie, clean it and place it on a better lie whereas with lift, clean and replace you get to lift your ball out of a grotty lie, clean it and put it back in exactly the same grotty lie.

 

[rulefan]

Cleaning Ball​

Model Local Rule E-2​

“When a player’s ball lies in [identify area, such as the general area, at the 6th hole, in the general area cut to fairway height or less, etc.], the ball may be lifted cleaned and replaced without penalty. The player must mark the spot of the ball before lifting it (see Rule 14.1) and the ball must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

Preferred Lies​

Model Local Rule E-3​

“When any part of a player’s ball touches part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or identify a specific area, such as on the fairway of the 6th hole], the player may take free relief once by placing the original ball or another ball in and playing it from this relief area:

• Reference Point: Spot of the original ball.
• Size of Relief Area Measured from Reference Point: [Specify size of relief area, such as one club-length, one scorecard length or 6 inches] from the reference point, but with these limits:
• Limits on Location of Relief Area:
  • Must not be nearer the hole than the reference point, and
  • Must be in the general area.

In proceeding under this Local Rule, the player must choose a spot to place the ball and use the procedures for replacing a ball under Rules 14.2b(2) and 14.2e. But, for the purposes of applying Rule 14.2e, the player has only chosen the spot on which to place the ball once the ball has been set down, and the player has let the ball go with the intent for that ball to be in play.

 

[IanM]

I thought so. Zombie apocalypse and ufo landings are also no longer reasons to suspend qualifiers!

 

[salfordlad]

The difference is that with preferred lies you get to lift your ball out of a grotty lie, clean it and place it on a better lie whereas with lift, clean and replace you get to lift your ball out of a grotty lie, clean it and put it back in exactly the same grotty lie.

At least, that's the theory.

 

[Colin L]

At least, that's the theory.

Come, come. It's what you expect from all golfers who, by virtue of being golfers, know the Rules and play with integrity.

 

[D-S]

It is interesting that this appears to be the most sensible rule for use in times when courses are extremely difficult to play but it doesn’t pass the ‘sniff test’ of most committees who assume that their players will not act with integrity. I assume they know that their players act with integrity at all other times when playing under the rules.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As we have now brought in Winter Rules with Model Local Rule E-3 in place (with wording as the LR and provided by Surrey County Golf), I have, when playing, started pointing out to anyone who cares to listen that the local rule does not require us to mark before lifting and I explain why, referring the difference with MLR E-2.

I do also mention that though not required it’s good practice to mark ball position, just in case someone quibbles over where we place the ball given the 6” relief NNH we are afforded.

I guess that I am not surprised that hardly a single person I mention this to knows about it.

Why do I bother? Last year I was pulled up by a Winter Singles match opponent for not marking my ball when the LR was in place. He wasn’t having what I said but waived the penalty he said I should incur as he considered he was out of the hole whatever…so further debate and possible acrimony were avoided.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

To be honest I still mark my ball as inevitably I go to my trolley to clean the ball on the attached towel.

I still see people moving the ball with a club which I'm not sure was ever allowed so the subtlety of just moving it without marking is probably too much to expect.

 

[rulefan]

To be honest I still mark my ball as inevitably I go to my trolley to clean the ball on the attached towel.

I still see people moving the ball with a club which I'm not sure was ever allowed so the subtlety of just moving it without marking is probably too much to expect.

Previously the rule said ".... such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke".