puttign rule re moving your ball

[GMorgan]

Hi
Was playing a competition n wanted to check a rule. Match play round, teams of 2. I was trying to make a long putt and went off course and was on line to hit my team mates ball, who had not marked his ball. He realises the ball is travelling towards his ball and quickly moves his ball out of the way. There was no contact in the end. Not bothered about his ball as i was on for the lowest score. Is it a penalty and what is the penalty? it was clean n place rules so i think he was fine to move his ball but i am not sure if its allowable if my ball is in motion

 

[Foxholer]

No! Once a ball is in motion, you can't move anything that it might hit - except for the flagstick while either attended or left on the ground.

There's actually no Penalty - in Matchplay - for hitting your partner's ball on the Putting Green, but it's 2 Stroke Penalty in Strokeplay. In Strokeplay, it's a 1 Shot Penalty by the person who picked the ball up.

As it is, I believe Your Partner suffers the Penalty for moving his ball while another Ball is in motion, which is 1 Shot Penalty. I'm not 1000% certain of Matchplay Rules though (and this is a bit curly), so happy to be corrected on the Penalty!

 

[Colin L]

I'm not quite with all of this, Foxholer.

As I see it

4 Ball Matchplay first, since that is what the OP asks about. By lifting his ball which could influence another ball in motion, the partner breached Rule 16-1b and is disqualified for the hole. The OP was assisted by his partner's action and therefore also gets the same penalty which means the side loses the hole (See Rule 30-3f).

In 4BBB stroke play, the player who lifted the ball incurs a 2 stroke penalty for a breach of 16-1b but does not incur an additional penalty under Rule 18-2 since it is all one action. As the partner who made the putt was assisted by the lifting of the ball, he incurs a 2 stroke penalty (see Rule 31-8)

I make it that lifting a ball which might influence another ball in motion is a 2 stroke/loss of hole penalty - a breach of either 16-1b on the putting green or 24-1b through the green

 

[Foxholer]

I'm not quite with all of this, Foxholer.

As I see it

4 Ball Matchplay first, since that is what the OP asks about. By lifting his ball which could influence another ball in motion, the partner breached Rule 16-1b and is disqualified for the hole. The OP was assisted by his partner's action and therefore also gets the same penalty which means the side loses the hole (See Rule 30-3f).

In 4BBB stroke play, the player who lifted the ball incurs a 2 stroke penalty for a breach of 16-1b but does not incur an additional penalty under Rule 18-2 since it is all one action. As the partner who made the putt was assisted by the lifting of the ball, he incurs a 2 stroke penalty (see Rule 31-8).

Fair enough! Doh!

 

[alexnguyen]

I have the same question all time. My dad is always cheating me cuz hes the only one plays with me in the backyard Finally i found out where i can looking for answers lol

 

[cliveb]

No! Once a ball is in motion, you can't move anything that it might hit - except for the flagstick while either attended or left on the ground.

When I saw your reply I looked for the rule that allows you to move the flagstick if it's left on the ground, but couldn't find it. I had always been under the impression that you were NOT allowed to. Which rule is relevant here?

 

[rulefan]

24-1. Movable Obstruction

A player may take relief, ..........................................etc

.
When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.

The words "removed or held up" were added in 2008.

 

[SammmeBee]

So to clarify you can move a removed flagstick.....

 

[rulefan]

What was unclear?

 

[Slab]

What was unclear?

As so often with the rules of golf it might just be the way its written:
When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved

Obviously its all grammatically correct but not sure it gives the layman the simplest way to understand it, as it starts by giving part of the rule: When a ball is in motion etc then adds all the exclusions such as equipment, players & the flagstick, then adds a physical state for the flagstick, removed or held up and only then completes the instruction '...must not be moved'

Doubtless there's a good reason they didn't write it like this:
When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball must not be moved, other than, equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, (removed or held up)

There may be a flaw it my version but it is after all the layman who needs to understand the rule not the person that wrote it

 

[Foxholer]

So to clarify you can move a removed flagstick.....

Yes. Though it was only a recent change (2008?) that allowed that.

 

[rulefan]

Yes. Though it was only a recent change (2008?) that allowed that.

See post #7

 

[Airsporter1st]

24-1. Movable Obstruction

A player may take relief, ..........................................etc

.
When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.

The words "removed or held up" were added in 2008.

So when they exclude "equipment of any player" in the paragraph in red,why would that not include another player's ball? In the rules, balls are defined as equipment.

Genuine question - not trying to be a smartarse.

 

[Foxholer]

So when they exclude "equipment of any player" in the paragraph in red,why would that not include another player's ball? In the rules, balls are defined as equipment....

Er...Not quite!!

Equipment
“Equipment” is anything used, worn or carried by the player or anything carried for the player by his partner or either of their caddies, except any ball he has played at the hole being played and any small object, such as a coin or a tee, when used to mark the position of a ball or the extent of an area in which a ball is to be dropped. Equipment includes a golf cart, whether or not motorized.

Note 1: A ball played at the hole being played is equipment when it has been lifted and not put back into play.

....

Rule 24-1 is about 'Movable Obstructions' which, apart when a ball played at the hole being played is 'equipment' as per Note 1, Rule 24 doesn't apply.

However Rule 18 (Ball at Rest Moved) does!

 

[Airsporter1st]

Er...Not quite!!

Equipment
“Equipment” is anything used, worn or carried by the player or anything carried for the player by his partner or either of their caddies, except any ball he has played at the hole being played and any small object, such as a coin or a tee, when used to mark the position of a ball or the extent of an area in which a ball is to be dropped. Equipment includes a golf cart, whether or not motorized.

Note 1: A ball played at the hole being played is equipment when it has been lifted and not put back into play.

....

Rule 24-1 is about 'Movable Obstructions' which, apart when a ball played at the hole being played is 'equipment' as per Note 1, Rule 24 doesn't apply.

However Rule 18 (Ball at Rest Moved) does!

Understood! Thankyou.