Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

[Lord Tyrion]

I think may a pundit would say the same thing for their team.....

For me it falls into I'd have accepted it if it was given, but can see reasons why it wasn't.

Probably a lot easier to not give decisions when you haven't got 70k fans on your back.

I think your last point is a very interesting one. I don't know if it can be measured but I suspect the refereeing of games is much more even without fans there. I don't blame the refs there, it must be hard not to be influenced in some way.

Saying all that, the sooner fans are back the better, safely obviously.

 

[Papas1982]

The extent of it may not have been available via legal means (hacked mails), but there is no doubt that it was going on, so should have been cracked down on earlier.

Some city fans think they have actually been exonerated, wow.

As it said in one article, the future of European football may end of being a war on the turf between 3 Arab Emirates, and possibly China. Maybe as a sport it may then be dead.

I fully agree that they are guilty of the violations, but just in any legal case. If the case is built on illegally gained evidence it'll fail.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I fully agree that they are guilty of the violations, but just in any legal case. If the case is built on illegally gained evidence it'll fail.

What evidence have you seen to convince you of their guilt?

Plenty of rumours and speculation but there does seem to be a distinct shortage of hard facts in the public domain.

 

[clubchamp98]

I agree the fine is peanuts.
But they haven't been fined 10m for ffp errors.

I guess the answer is they put a case together properly. Go through correct channels to get all info required and whilst it make take longer. Get it right.

I think the worst thing is it’s UEFAs time line rules not the courts, that’s so poor they can’t even stick to their own rules!
But my main point is the clubs can drag their feet and not cooperate just to run the time down so the charges are dropped.
Then just get a fine for not cooperating.

 

[GreiginFife]

What evidence have you seen to convince you of their guilt?

Plenty of rumours and speculation but there does seem to be a distinct shortage of hard facts in the public domain.

UEFA believed that they had evidence in the form of the emails from the German media organisation. Evidence that they used to cite City for the rule breaches.
Evidence that, from all accounts, would see City's ban upheld were it not for the fact it was illegally obtained.

 

[clubchamp98]

UEFA believed that they had evidence in the form of the emails from the German media organisation. Evidence that they used to cite City for the rule breaches.
Evidence that, from all accounts, would see City's ban upheld were it not for the fact it was illegally obtained.

In that case should UEFA be prosecuted for breaking the law.
It looks to me like they have some sort of agreement to let the time line run down as it suits both parties.!

 

[GreiginFife]

In that case should UEFA be prosecuted for breaking the law.
It looks to me like they have some sort of agreement to let the time line run down as it suits both parties.!

If were it a legal judicial process then yes, perhaps they would be. Seeing as it's breaking the rules of UEFA themselves then I doubt we will see or hear anything further from them on this topic, let alone an appeal.

 

[clubchamp98]

If were it a legal judicial process then yes, perhaps they would be. Seeing as it's breaking the rules of UEFA themselves then I doubt we will see or hear anything further from them on this topic, let alone an appeal.

Illegally obtaining someone’s emails is breaking the law isn’t it.?
Not UEFAs laws .
I would have thought That’s a police matter.
But are City going to complain seeing this has all ended very well for them , just a slap on the wrist.

 

[GreiginFife]

Illegally obtaining someone’s emails is breaking the law isn’t it.?
Not UEFAs laws .
I would have thought That’s a police matter.
But are City going to complain seeing this has all ended very well for them , just a slap on the wrist.

No one will want any further looking in to this I wouldn't think.
UEFA have made a balls up and let both a big fish escape and undermine the FPP principles and intent in one fell swoop.

 

[clubchamp98]

No one will want any further looking in to this I wouldn't think.
UEFA have made a balls up and let both a big fish escape and undermine the FPP principles and intent in one fell swoop.

Yes I totally agree with you.
But should UEFA get away with breaking the law?
That’s why I think they have colluded to let it run out of time, and the CAS was a show trial.
The law is the law and they are not above it. They should be investigated by the police.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes I totally agree with you.
But should UEFA get away with breaking the law?
That’s why I think they have colluded to let it run out of time, and the CAS was a show trial.
The law is the law and they are not above it. They should be investigated by the police.

Der Spiegel the German Newspaper are the ones who supplied the information, it’s them who should be investigated, UEFA were stupid to accept it.

Personally, as previously discussed, ffp should never have been brought in, it wasn’t about levelling the playing field it was about protecting those already at the top table.

 

[clubchamp98]

Der Spiegel the German Newspaper are the ones who supplied the information, it’s them who should be investigated, UEFA were stupid to accept it.

Personally, as previously discussed, ffp should never have been brought in, it wasn’t about levelling the playing field it was about protecting those already at the top table.

Yes that’s correct.
But receiving stolen goods is a crime .
They knew it was dodgy and still tried to use it.
They are pathetic , but nothing ever seems to be done about them.
They seem untouchable.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes that’s correct.
But receiving stolen goods is a crime .
They knew it was dodgy and still tried to use it.
They are pathetic , but nothing ever seems to be done about them.
They seem untouchable.

Probably because they “police” themselves.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

UEFA believed that they had evidence in the form of the emails from the German media organisation. Evidence that they used to cite City for the rule breaches.
Evidence that, from all accounts, would see City's ban upheld were it not for the fact it was illegally obtained.

Sorry but the evidence is not that clear.

Most people when asked seem to think Man City are guilty of spending too much money whereas the charges appear to surround the sources of those funds.

In particular the distinction between investment (i.e. equity) and sponsorship.

My point is that they may well have broken the rules but none of what I have so far seen confirms this enough for me to join those on here and elsewhere who confidently proclaim that "of course City are guilty ".

Perhaps their confidence reflects the reasoning behind the introduction of FFP to protect the interests of those already considering themselves at the top table.

 

[GreiginFife]

Sorry but the evidence is not that clear.

Most people when asked seem to think Man City are guilty of spending too much money whereas the charges appear to surround the sources of those funds.

In particular the distinction between investment (i.e. equity) and sponsorship.

My point is that they may well have broken the rules but none of what I have so far seen confirms this enough for me to join those on here and elsewhere who confidently proclaim that "of course City are guilty ".

Perhaps their confidence reflects the reasoning behind the introduction of FFP to protect the interests of those already considering themselves at the top table.

My point was more that regardless of what is in the public domain, and I'm not sure that any needs to be, UEFA deemed that they had sufficient evidence to cite City on breaches of the rules. The evidence was clear enough to those that made the decision to cite and, in these matters is the view that counts.
I have no idea whether or not City were or were not guilty. I do not care if they were or weren't, UEFA were convinced they were and felt the evidence was clear enough to ban City.
The fact they then ballsed up the process thereafter is why we now find City in the position they are in.

 

[Papas1982]

What evidence have you seen to convince you of their guilt?

Plenty of rumours and speculation but there does seem to be a distinct shortage of hard facts in the public domain.

I'd base my opinion on the fact they weren't found not guilty l, but simply not charged.

Imagine an incident person charged if something. Would they settle for being let off on a technicality or demand a full retraction of the charge? I've not seen City make any such comments yet?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I'd base my opinion on the fact they weren't found not guilty l, but simply not charged.

Imagine an incident person charged if something. Would they settle for being let off on a technicality or demand a full retraction of the charge? I've not seen City make any such comments yet?

So guilty until proven innocent.

Is that just for City or is that your belief in all cases?

And there is no scope for City to demand a full retraction. Having said that Pep was pretty clear on his opinion of the outcome.

 

[Papas1982]

So guilty until proven innocent.

Is that just for City or is that your belief in all cases?

And there is no scope for City to demand a full retraction. Having said that Pep was pretty clear on his opinion of the outcome.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I said.

TBC, I said that I’d expect innocent parties (in all cases) to fight harder to be fully acquitted. (At the time I’d not seen peps interview),

For the record, I’m not a fan of ffp and don’t think clubs should have to abide by them.

 

[fundy]

Guessing the Wigan players not that impressed by their owners underhand behaviour and the 12 point deduction likely to relegate them. Just the 7-0 up against Hull at Half time and giving themselves every chance to survive despite whats gone on!!!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Guessing the Wigan players not that impressed by their owners underhand behaviour and the 12 point deduction likely to relegate them. Just the 7-0 up against Hull at Half time and giving themselves every chance to survive despite whats gone on!!!

It says something about Hull right now though ?