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Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

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Liverbirdie said:
The handball law didnt need to be changed, it should have just stayed what it was approx 5-10 years ago, and for the main it worked.

No reffing in football is perfect, but some are better than others. The handball rule/interpretation is a perfect example.

I think the vast majority of handballs 5-10 years ago could be deciphered down the intentional / borderline / non-intentional spheres but when they start to bring in mad descriptions was when it started to go pear-shaped. Not to with VAR but with VAR making rule decisions, it comes into that sphere of influence, but the main problem is the rule itself.
Click to expand...
They've tried really hard to make it completely black and white, maybe that's what they thought people wanted when they asked for VAR? But it never can be black and white, not if you want it to be sensible at the same time.
 
Orikoru said:
Don't really agree though. When VAR was touted I was picturing the video screen at the side of the pitch so the referee could review a decision he wasn't sure about by watching it. And I was all for it. What we've got is something VERY different. Idiots sitting in an office reviewing it instead of the referee who actually has the context of the game; plus some stupid rule changes to make them more arbitrary instead of using common sense, which wasn't needed at all. I don't know who decided video replays and common sense weren't compatible. I just don't know how they have got it so wrong. It could have been done so much easier and better.
Click to expand...

Its was clear before the season refs would not be using the screen.

There's 2 issues I can see.

1, The complete mismanagement from the top of PGMOL. We're using the concept very differently than the rest of Europe.
2, The rule changes have been made to improve decisions. Unfortunately that's not worked as planned.

There was many occasions in seasons gone by when a players right boot was offside and goals have stood. Many people have used these incidents to campaign for VAR/Change. Now it's been done those same people are complaining the rules are stupid.

Common sense doesnt exist.
 
Stuart_C said:
Its was clear before the season refs would not be using the screen.

There's 2 issues I can see.

1, The complete mismanagement from the top of PGMOL. We're using the concept very differently than the rest of Europe.
2, The rule changes have been made to improve decisions. Unfortunately that's not worked as planned.

There was many occasions in seasons gone by when a players right boot was offside and goals have stood. Many people have used these incidents to campaign for VAR/Change. Now it's been done those same people are complaining the rules are stupid.

Common sense doesnt exist.
Click to expand...
My view on offside is that it should be clearly offside = offside, as in you talk their body as a whole and visibly see that they are ahead of the defender's body. If they are running neck and neck, but the forward's toe is in front simply because of the stride pattern in the frame where they stop it, that is ridiculous and shouldn't be given as offside. I hate when they draw the lines on it and "prove" that someone was offside because he was leaning forward and his forehead was in front of the players shoes. Just rubbish. All they had to do was watch the replay with the naked eye and see if he's clearly offside or not. Would take a third of the time as well.
 
Liverbirdie said:
The handball law didnt need to be changed, it should have just stayed what it was approx 5-10 years ago, and for the main it worked.

No reffing in football is perfect, but some are better than others. The handball rule/interpretation is a perfect example.

I think the vast majority of handballs 5-10 years ago could be deciphered down the intentional / borderline / non-intentional spheres but when they start to bring in mad descriptions was when it started to go pear-shaped. Not to with VAR but with VAR making rule decisions, it comes into that sphere of influence, but the main problem is the rule itself.
Click to expand...

I think it needed tweaking. Defenders making themselves bigger etc, that's gaining an advantage. I don't like this current handball rule. How can you have the defender getting accidental handball but not the attacker?

Players getting penalised for jumping with their arms up is another one. This has came from the pundits "unnatural position" lines...

It all comes back to having better refs, demoting the rubbish ones and generally trying to improve the standard.
 
K
Orikoru said:
My view on offside is that it should be clearly offside = offside, as in you talk their body as a whole and visibly see that they are ahead of the defender's body. If they are running neck and neck, but the forward's toe is in front simply because of the stride pattern in the frame where they stop it, that is ridiculous and shouldn't be given as offside. I hate when they draw the lines on it and "prove" that someone was offside because he was leaning forward and his forehead was in front of the players shoes. Just rubbish. All they had to do was watch the replay with the naked eye and see if he's clearly offside or not. Would take a third of the time as well.
Click to expand...

Rubbish. If hes not clearly offside but only just is that ok?? ??

The problem with your suggestion is where do you stop? How do you measure? It's got to have a point where its offside.
 
Stuart_C said:
K


Rubbish. If hes not clearly offside but only just is that ok?? ??

The problem with your suggestion is where do you stop? How do you measure? It's got to have a point where its offside.
Click to expand...
It's down the officials judgement like always?

I have done a crude drawing to explain what I mean a bit better. Let's say the red stickman is the attacker and the blue is the defender:
offside.png
(They're running from right to left.)

You can see that the red player is actually behind the defender based on where his body is. But because of the stride pattern at the point when they stop the replay, bad luck for him, his foot happens to be a fraction in front, so that would be given offside, even though there is no way he's gaining an advantage there - since his body is behind the defender's. This sort of thing has been given frequently throughout the season and I believe it's wrong. They should judge it as a whole, is the player in front of the defender and thus gaining an advantage. If one toe is in front but their bodies are neck and neck, than that is level. They have completely removed the concept of being level with a defender. Strikers cannot be level anymore in case a tiny fraction of their body is shown to be offside in one frame of the replay, so now they have to stay two feet further onside just to be sure. And I don't think that is right. As an attacker you should be able to look across the line and see that you are level with the defenders.
 
Orikoru said:
It's down the officials judgement like always?

I have done a crude drawing to explain what I mean a bit better. Let's say the red stickman is the attacker and the blue is the defender:
View attachment 31489
(They're running from right to left.)

You can see that the red player is actually behind the defender based on where his body is. But because of the stride pattern at the point when they stop the replay, bad luck for him, his foot happens to be a fraction in front, so that would be given offside, even though there is no way he's gaining an advantage there - since his body is behind the defender's. This sort of thing has been given frequently throughout the season and I believe it's wrong. They should judge it as a whole, is the player in front of the defender and thus gaining an advantage. If one toe is in front but their bodies are neck and neck, than that is level. They have completely removed the concept of being level with a defender. Strikers cannot be level anymore in case a tiny fraction of their body is shown to be offside in one frame of the replay, so now they have to stay two feet further onside just to be sure. And I don't think that is right. As an attacker you should be able to look across the line and see that you are level with the defenders.
Click to expand...

Post of the year ?????

I think I said months ago, it should be a point on the torso or maybe just above the waist but not including the arms. The legs and feet thing at the minute is a joke as described so eloquently by Mr Ori.
 
MetalMickie said:
I thought that the greatest difference was at the other end of the pitch.

The unreliable City defence looked really solid for once.

Liverpool's defence has been absolutely magnificent all season but last night looked all over the place. Even Alyson and DvD.
Click to expand...
Agree with the Liverpool defence.
But our final ball was awful and if we had got it right would have scored a few.
Our bad finishing was the only reason they kept a clean sheet not their defending.
That was the difference for me. First half anyway.
.
 
Stuart_C said:
Its was clear before the season refs would not be using the screen.

There's 2 issues I can see.

1, The complete mismanagement from the top of PGMOL. We're using the concept very differently than the rest of Europe.
2, The rule changes have been made to improve decisions. Unfortunately that's not worked as planned.

There was many occasions in seasons gone by when a players right boot was offside and goals have stood. Many people have used these incidents to campaign for VAR/Change. Now it's been done those same people are complaining the rules are stupid.

Common sense doesnt exist.
Click to expand...

But If VAR disappeared tomorrow the daft handball rule would still be there, would'nt it?

I agree they have royally ballsed up parts of it, including the ref being able to look himself, but would be happy to have 1-2 more seasons of VAR to see if it improves enough and if it does'nt bin it.

I still think that the captain/manager having only, say 3, appeals would greatly help its use and application though.
 
Stuart_C said:
I think it needed tweaking. Defenders making themselves bigger etc, that's gaining an advantage. I don't like this current handball rule. How can you have the defender getting accidental handball but not the attacker?

Players getting penalised for jumping with their arms up is another one. This has came from the pundits "unnatural position" lines...

It all comes back to having better refs, demoting the rubbish ones and generally trying to improve the standard.
Click to expand...

It doesnt ALL come back to that though. A utopian idea.

Even if we had refs like the machine in Predator, we still wouldnt be happy with a good portion of it.
 
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