Poppies and minutes silence

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Adi2Dassler said:
Their silence would be endorsing the reasons for the illegal war...something very different to both WW's...is an opinion I've heard alot this weekend.

How far would you take it?Would you make it mandatory/Law to observe the silence?
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Remembrance Sunday isn't about the Iraq War or the reasons why - it's remembering people that put their lives on the line for the country.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
At football matches - other than those actually being played on 11th November? Are you sure? You may well be correct but not something I really recall happening in the 60s, 70s, 80s
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I can remembering it happen all the way through the 80's and 90's
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Remembrance Sunday isn't about the Iraq War or the reasons why - it's remembering people that put their lives on the line for the country.
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Absolutely correct - those who oppose remembrance and poppies etc do so on the basis of a deliberate misinterpretation or misconstruing of what remembrance is actually about. It is about people - not places or events. Yes - oppose and protest against wars that have been and that are, as you are free to do - but do not muddle up that opposition to remembrance of those who have lived, served and died - then or since.
 
Remembrance is nothing to do with the justification/glorification of any war...

Anzac day was/is an important part of my old villages calendar...

For the same reason of taking a short time each year to remember those that gave their lives for us...
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Remembrance Sunday isn't about the Iraq War or the reasons why - it's remembering people that put their lives on the line for the country.
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It isn't specifically about Iraq and Afghanistan or the reasons, I agree, but they're not excluded are they?It's been made a political football,a politically correct my way or the high way agenda, your with us or against us,wear a poppy and be quiet or you spit on the grave of dead soldiers.All dramatic but with grains of truth in there somewhere.

As a guy who served, did you agree with us going into Iraq, or do you now knowing it was a sham?Do you think we've made the UK safer or more dangerous with our actions in Afghanistan?Do you think that Remembrance day has been made a political event?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Remembrance Sunday isn't about the Iraq War or the reasons why - it's remembering people that put their lives on the line for the country.
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Totally agree. It's not about opposition to this war or that war but simply have the decency and kindness of human spirit to remember those who died serving this country. I find it incredibly disrespectful when people oppose the poppy or remembrance ceremonies. My father fought in the 2nd world war, my brother in the Falklands and my nephew in Afghanistan. All fortunately returned home safely but I always recall my Dad and tears in his eyes watching the festival of remembrance and now I do the same.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Remembrance Sunday isn't about the Iraq War or the reasons why - it's remembering people that put their lives on the line for the country.
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And it is about a time and a day - Remembrance Sunday and 11am on 11th November. Anyone at a football match outside of that day and time - player, club or supporter - can pause for reflection with everyone else. One of the main points of remembrance is that we all do it together - the power of remembrance is in the togetherness of the reflection - one reason why a time and a date was arrived at in the first place.
 
Adi2Dassler said:
It isn't specifically about Iraq and Afghanistan or the reasons, I agree, but they're not excluded are they?It's been made a political football,a politically correct my way or the high way agenda, your with us or against us,wear a poppy and be quiet or you spit on the grave of dead soldiers.All dramatic but with grains of truth in there somewhere.

As a guy who served, did you agree with us going into Iraq, or do you now knowing it was a sham?Do you think we've made the UK safer or more dangerous with our actions in Afghanistan?Do you think that Remembrance day has been made a political event?
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I'll say it again - Remembrance Day is about people not events. If anyone wants to turn it into anything political then that shows a lot about them and also the sheep who can't think for themselves that follow.

As for Iraq and Afghan it wasn't my job to decide if it was right or wrong - I went there and did my job in the hope it made the people out there have a better chance in life with better medical and schooling facilities and helping get rid of a tyrant regime that murdered millions.

Far too many people look for reasons why we shouldn't have gone to Iraq or Afghan without thinking or understanding the good work that has been done to make both countries a better place for the people who live there. Yes work that has been done out there has made the world including the uk a safer place - work that people wouldn't know went on and still goes on.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And it is about a time and a day - Remembrance Sunday and 11am on 11th November. Anyone at a football match outside of that day and time - player, club or supporter - can pause for reflection with everyone else. One of the main points of remembrance is that we all do it together - the power of remembrance is in the togetherness of the reflection - one reason why a time and a date was arrived at in the first place.
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Yes I agree with that but I have no prob with organisations also observing at the nearest opportunity.
 
AmandaJR said:
Totally agree. It's not about opposition to this war or that war but simply have the decency and kindness of human spirit to remember those who died serving this country. I find it incredibly disrespectful when people oppose the poppy or remembrance ceremonies. My father fought in the 2nd world war, my brother in the Falklands and my nephew in Afghanistan. All fortunately returned home safely but I always recall my Dad and tears in his eyes watching the festival of remembrance and now I do the same.
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To which I'll add that I have often not bought a poppy - but I always pause for reflection on Remembrance Sunday and at 11am on 11/11 - as I did today.

Remembering specifically my grandfather who served in the Dardanelles and was shot - then after recuperation in Perthshire was posted to the fields of France - where he was shot again and gassed. He survived but died relatively young in his mid-60s. He had been called up by the Duke of Atholl to join the Scottish Horse (the Black Watch cavalry regiment) formed by the Duke. He joined up even although he was too young - because he felt it was his duty. My dad bobbed about the Mediterranean and Red Seas for 5yrs in merchant ships - avoiding german submarines. He went to sea when he was 17. It's what he felt he had to do.

Today I paused from work and remembered them both amongst the many.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
To which I'll add that I have often not bought a poppy - but I always pause for reflection on Remembrance Sunday and at 11am on 11/11 - as I did today.

Remembering specifically my grandfather who served in the Dardanelles and was shot - then after recuperation in Perthshire was posted to the fields of France - where he was shot again and gassed. He survived but died relatively young in his mid-60s. He had been called up by the Duke of Atholl to join the Scottish Horse (the Black Watch cavalry regiment) formed by the Duke. He joined up even although he was too young - because he felt it was his duty. My dad bobbed about the Mediterranean and Red Seas for 5yrs in merchant ships - avoiding german submarines. He went to sea when he was 17. It's what he felt he had to do.

Today I paused from work and remembered them both amongst the many.
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My grandad was a Marine in WW2 - my dad was in the RAF and went to the Falklands , my brother is in the Navy and I did 22 in the RAF - all of us are very proud of our military background.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I'll say it again - Remembrance Day is about people not events. If anyone wants to turn it into anything political then that shows a lot about them and also the sheep who can't think for themselves that follow.

As for Iraq and Afghan it wasn't my job to decide if it was right or wrong - I went there and did my job in the hope it made the people out there have a better chance in life with better medical and schooling facilities and helping get rid of a tyrant regime that murdered millions.

Far too many people look for reasons why we shouldn't have gone to Iraq or Afghan without thinking or understanding the good work that has been done to make both countries a better place for the people who live there. Yes work that has been done out there has made the world including the uk a safer place - work that people wouldn't know went on and still goes on.
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As I said initially, I always want to participate in the silence, and whilst I do not wear a poppy, I always contribute money to the Haig Poppy appeal.But I say that with the caveat of I'm thinking about the soldiers who put down their lives in whatever far flung place, but also all the innocent victims of war in these places.I still stand by the assertion that Iraq is no better off today, and that Afghanistan will become the Taliban strong hold within 2 years of withdrawal there.And my disgust of politicians who made the choice to invade these countries rises to boiling point each November.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Yes I agree with that but I have no prob with organisations also observing at the nearest opportunity.
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And I don't see the point. There is no need and it can give rise to the sort of unfortunate issues that have been mentioned on here when you try and do it outside of it's original time, place and context.
 
Adi2Dassler said:
As I said initially, I always want to participate in the silence, and whilst I do not wear a poppy, I always contribute money to the Haig Poppy appeal.But I say that with the caveat of I'm thinking about the soldiers who put down their lives in whatever far flung place, but also all the innocent victims of war in these places.I still stand by the assertion that Iraq is no better off today, and that Afghanistan will become the Taliban strong hold within 2 years of withdrawal there.And my disgust of politicians who made the choice to invade these countries rises to boiling point each November.
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Have you been to Iraq ? Either before or after ?

Same with Afghan ?

Are you able to get a picture on the ground to judge both places.

There will always be innocent victims of war and they are also remembered by people.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And I don't see the point. There is no need and it can give rise to the sort of unfortunate issues that have been mentioned on here when you try and do it outside of it's original time, place and context.
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And that's more down to the people that are incapable of understanding the reason why a minutes silence is given.
 
My father was a Black Watch man.
First across the Rhine, first into Germany and first to capture the concentration camps.
He never talked of the war.

As a child I will always remember him at our local Service standing quietly at the back whilst the British Legion guys marched passed with their medals. Ironically most of them had not seen active service.
He threw his medals into the sea.

I also remember him saying that probably more 'auld yins' [1914-18] died after attending a cold wet November service than in the war itself.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
My father was a Black Watch man.
First across the Rhine, first into Germany and first to capture the concentration camps.
He never talked of the war.

As a child I will always remember him at our local Service standing quietly at the back whilst the British Legion guys marched passed with their medals. Ironically most of them had not seen active service.
He threw his medals into the sea.

I also remember him saying that probably more 'auld yins' [1914-18] died after attending a cold wet November service than in the war itself.
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Brilliant story. Sounds like my Dad who never spoke about his time in Burma apart from burning leeches off with his fag! As a child I asked him if he ever shot a German (confused child!) and he said "no love - I was a rotten shot so it would have been an accident"...
 
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