Ponderings on Custom Fitting

[Deleted member 15344]

I don’t believe there is a one size fits all - we all have different golf swings , there is no one swing for all - but golf clubs have a standard length and lie , now i expect most can hit those standard clubs to a certain level but how do you know that it’s not the very best that you can hit the ball , how does someone know that for his swing the shaft would be better to be a regular but with a lie of 1 degree flat or a shaft of extra 1 inch , and with the multiple shaft options how do you know that you swing would better suited to a kbs tour as opposed to a nippon modus etc - these are all things that are found out at a fit , people can’t walk into an American golf and try out an iron that’s 1 degree flat from the shelf

But there are no doubt people who will be suited to the standard fit and they just need to use what’s on the shelf but again how do they know that’s the very best set up for them.

I know plenty who have seen improvements from custom fit - including myself but I also know some that have gone backwards. So I don’t think it’s mythical or a load of nonsense but I also don’t think it’s the golden egg but for me it’s a no brainer when most outlets offer it as part of the package of buying the irons

 

[ScienceBoy]

'Worth' means different things to different people. They'd be better buying a good quality second hand set and putting the savings on the bar card,
IMO.

One option is paying a fitting fee and then more than recouperating the costs buying second hand instead of new.

You just have to find a like for like, which is the challenging part!

I would suggest the best compromise is finding your ping dot and buying second hand ping clubs in the required spec.

If I was new to the game like I was back in 2010 I would do that rather than what I did do, which was end up with a set of mid cavities that were a challenge to learn to play with. I don’t regret the route I took but I think in a do-over I would do it different. I always wonder what could have happened.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

One option is paying a fitting fee and then more than recouperating the costs buying second hand instead of new.

You just have to find a like for like, which is the challenging part!

I would suggest the best compromise is finding your ping dot and buying second hand ping clubs in the required spec.

If I was new to the game like I was back in 2010 I would do that rather than what I did do, which was end up with a set of mid cavities that were a challenge to learn to play with. I don’t regret the route I took but I think in a do-over I would do it different. I always wonder what could have happened.

How is that a compromise when you are then just limited to Ping clubs ?

The best compromise is to go to a demo day - get your fitting stats from that and then buy from someone with that set up but even then it’s not always likely you will find a second hand set with those fitting settings unless you go to someone like golf bidder

 

[clubchamp98]

Two people one 6’4” one 5’2” they drive the same car but the seat, wheel etc are set to suit the individual.
This is custom fitting you would not drive your car in the settings for someone else when you can have your own.
Standard will fit lots of people but not all.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

To say it is free depends on where you go and who does it.

When it is not part of a demo day done by a manufacturer the Pro where I play charges for it.

Does he take the cost of the custom fit from the cost of the irons ? That would be the first Pro I have heard who changes extra on top of the cost of the irons to custom fit them

 

[badgb21]

Good analogy.

Two people one 6’4” one 5’2” they drive the same car but the seat, wheel etc are set to suit the individual.
This is custom fitting you would not drive your car in the settings for someone else when you can have your own.
Standard will fit lots of people but not all.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It also depends largely on where you go for a fitting and the skill and knowledge of the fitter. I have never had a free fitting and the charge is always offset against the cost of any purchase or a charge made if I've walked away. The only exception to this is when there has been a demo day at a range or my club. Then, even though you are booking a time slot, it isn't always as comprehensive as one at a dedicated fitting centre and in my experience not always a massive range of shaft/head options to choose from.

 

[Backsticks]

Good analogy.

False analogy - a logical fallacy that occurs when someone applies facts from one situation to another situation but the situations are substantially different and the same conclusions cannot logically be drawn.
Sometimes these differences are outright ignored by the person presenting the fallacy; other times, they may not be aware of the differences. The fallacy occurs, and is common, because real-world parallels are always limited; the differences between things can often overpower their similarities.
Analogies and metaphors can be very useful to explain things to people and often play an important part in learning. However, because of the prevalence of false analogies they're much less useful in making arguments.



The use of false analogies in club fitting is a very strong indicator that there is indeed no solid foundation to its claims I feel.

 

[MadAdey]

Forget the false analogy then and use this one instead.

If I take a standard set of clubs I find myself not being able to swing freely and I also hit the ball out to the right, probably caused by the toe digging in at impact. It is not that I can't play with a standard set, I just find myself having to stoop over the ball more and dropping my hands to keep the toe up. Problem then is I am not using my natural swing and I tend to swing flatter and slap at the ball.

My friend at work is a mid to high 80s shooter. HE said he struggles with his longer irons. He hit my irons and couldn't believe how much straighter he hit them. Someone who is 6'2 with standard clubs and struggles, then hits a set that is longer and more upright and hits it straighter says it all to me.

So is custom fitting worth it or not? Especially the fact that it is free if you buy the clubs, unless you go to one of these fancy fitting studios, then I would agree that is a waste of money, especially when people start paying for crazy priced exotic shaft upgrades. A standard fitting that gets the length and lie angle right and the the grip size is well worth it IMO.

 

[virtuocity]

Every manufacturer and club fitter are invested in punters buying into the virtues of custom fitting- it enables them to sell new ranges of clubs as frequently as they can launch them, including upselling of shaft and tour version heads etc.

Why then, has there never been a study on the impact of custom fitting on scores, using robust research methodology? It would be reasonably easy and cheap to have a controlled experiment to isolate the fitting process as a variable to accept/reject a hypothesis that Club fitting, on its own does not positively affect scores (to a level of statistical significance). It would be golden in terms of marketing- maybe a cynic like me would go for a fitting!

Until then, any discussion about fitting is merely more geeky chat (love it though) on a forum, where there is a lot of bias by (in)experience of the process.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why does there need to be a study ? If someone wants to get custom fit they can get it free when they are looking to buy a new set of clubs. I will be amazed if people only buy clubs because they can be fit for them. I have had two custom fits , the first one took my handicap from 13 down to 4 , the second one I have just had. I have been fit for four drivers and each time I have managed to gain something from it

On the last driver fit I found out the spin I was getting was enabling me to lose a considerable amount of yardage , by trying multiple shafts and head settings I was able to reduce that spin down and gain yardage and whilst it’s took me a little time I’m now seeing those results on the course. I don’t need any stats , I can only judge on my expirence of the fitting and also the experiences of others - and each time the cost of the fitting has been removed from the cost of the irons or driver.

I have also taken one set of irons straight from the shelf and one driver - irons lasted 5 months and driver 6 months , irons were awful for me and were found to be completely the wrong set up for me - the pro even offered to adjust them for me so it wasn’t just about selling me a new set

 

[badgb21]

Im 6’3” - are you saying standard clubs fit all?
should tall people just bend over more and hold the club lower to get the correct lie?
Ive been away from golf for a long time, so this is all very interesting.
it seems rather logical to adapt a tool to best fit ones body shape and personal preferences, where possible.
How tall are you and how would you advise going about buying a new clubs?
interested to hear more, as Logical part of my brain won’t let me see past custom fit.



I knew I should have hung onto those impossible hand-me-down blades from 40 years ago, my dad had.

False analogy - a logical fallacy that occurs when someone applies facts from one situation to another situation but the situations are substantially different and the same conclusions cannot logically be drawn.
Sometimes these differences are outright ignored by the person presenting the fallacy; other times, they may not be aware of the differences. The fallacy occurs, and is common, because real-world parallels are always limited; the differences between things can often overpower their similarities.
Analogies and metaphors can be very useful to explain things to people and often play an important part in learning. However, because of the prevalence of false analogies they're much less useful in making arguments.



The use of false analogies in club fitting is a very strong indicator that there is indeed no solid foundation to its claims I feel.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Every manufacturer and club fitter are invested in punters buying into the virtues of custom fitting- it enables them to sell new ranges of clubs as frequently as they can launch them, including upselling of shaft and tour version heads etc.

Why then, has there never been a study on the impact of custom fitting on scores, using robust research methodology? It would be reasonably easy and cheap to have a controlled experiment to isolate the fitting process as a variable to accept/reject a hypothesis that Club fitting, on its own does not positively affect scores (to a level of statistical significance). It would be golden in terms of marketing- maybe a cynic like me would go for a fitting!

Until then, any discussion about fitting is merely more geeky chat (love it though) on a forum, where there is a lot of bias by (in)experience of the process.

Er, no. I was buying a new set of Mizuno irons last year. They would have cost me the same whether I have a custom fit with Mizuno or just order them off the shelf, so decide on the fit. I go for the fitting and we start off hitting mine for the benchmark. So the fitter then asks what I'm after, I tell him and he puts the first trial club together; no great change. Slight variation on the first. No great change. Can I try something completely different? Of course you can. Third one bolted together and bingo, much better figures, better flight, better distance, better discretion; in the clubhead that they are going to shortly discontinue! We work through the shafts that suit and I settle on the Nippon Modus, midsize grips and extra length and a lie adjustment. the club pro gets me a price 10 bob a stick more than AG, half price wedge deal when I order another and free stamping on any wedge.

So, was I upsold a tour head; no.
Was I upsold a shaft; no, I was sold the best suited shaft at the same price as the standard.
Was I sold the new range; no, I was sold the shortly to be discontinued model.

Has it made a difference; club matchplay champion last year, first board medal win this year, cut from 9 to 7. No, you're right, it's clearly a marketing gimmick that doesn't work. :rofl:

 

[HomerJSimpson]

As often with golf, is there actually a definitive answer? If someone wants to go and get a full fitting and new clubs then why not? Will it ultimately allow them to play better and off a lower handicap? Maybe or maybe it's simply the placebo effect we all get when we have new clubs in the bag. Having bought via a fit and off the shelf, my handicap hasn't really shown too much progress in the last three years. As I said originally I use to think a fit was the way forward when getting new clubs and was a big advocate. These days I'm far less sure

 

[Jacko_G]

Its a topic where the haters will hate.

I am in the custom fit outweighs the negatives when purchasing new irons camp. I wouldn't spend that money on a new set of bats or a new driver without the custom fit option. My driver shaft performs significantly differently to the standard shafts offered with that model. Not even close, to get it dialled in took time and effort and the time I spent getting it done was worth every penny.

Professional fitters are exactly that, professional.

 

[virtuocity]

Why does there need to be a study?

Because the manufacturers and fitters would then have empirical evidence that custom fitting gets Cat 3 hackers into low single figures and secures club matchplay championships.

 

[Jacko_G]

Because the manufacturers and fitters would then have empirical evidence that custom fitting gets Cat 3 hackers into low single figures and secures club matchplay championships.

Nonsense scenario.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because the manufacturers and fitters would then have empirical evidence that custom fitting gets Cat 3 hackers into low single figures and secures club matchplay championships.

I don’t expect that’s what the custom fit is aiming to do

It’s all about giving someone the best tools available for them to do the job - people still have to swing the club , a custom fit isn’t suddenly going to give someone more natural ability that sees them shooting down in HC

A custom fit is going to give you the best available option for the swing you have on that day - it’s still end to the golfer to swing the club as best and as consistent as possible

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Because the manufacturers and fitters would then have empirical evidence that custom fitting gets Cat 3 hackers into low single figures and secures club matchplay championships.

Manufacturers and fitters will all say that is not what a club fitting is all about. If we were to take your scenario on, how come any Cat 1 golfers being fitted aren't suddenly scratch and winning top amateur events.

 

[13Aces]

I don’t expect that’s what the custom fit is aiming to do

It’s all about giving someone the best tools available for them to do the job - people still have to swing the club , a custom fit isn’t suddenly going to give someone more natural ability that sees them shooting down in HC

A custom fit is going to give you the best available option for the swing you have on that day - it’s still end to the golfer to swing the club as best and as consistent as possible

Totally agree. Went to AG for a custom iron fit-- recommended Ping G400 Red Dot. Then Ping Demo Day at our club 2 weeks later-- recommended Ping G400 Blue Dot!!! So either the fitting was wrong or "on that day" thats what my swing said!!