Police Verification

[Swinglowandslow]

Verification is a red herring because Wayne Couzens was indeed a serving police officer. The issue is the institutionalised misogyny within the police service that allowed a man like that to become and to remain a police officer despite previously committing sexual offences.

Please be fair here. Reading the reports of his indecent exposures, it is NOW known that the person was him. Before the terrible crime ,the police did not know that the flasher was W.C, police officer.
On one instance, One part of the Police knew that the flashers car was registered to a W.C. Failure to quickly enough process the enquiry meant he wasn't known as W.C, police officer.
As far as I am aware, the latest flashing enquiry got as far as getting a car number, again not getting as far as identifying the car driver as being W.C, police officer.
I have seen no factual report alleging that W.C. was identified as committing flasher offences, but because he was also a police officer, it was decided to go no further.
There is no evidence of institutionalised misogyny in the police any more than any other organisation. Police , as an institution, do not dislike or abuse women. If they do, how do you account for the high office held by as many women as they do , within the service. If you were correct, there would not be many.

 

[larmen]

In fact, Shipman was used as a justification for putting in place a rigid system of appraisal and revalidation for doctors, none of which would have had the slightest effect on detecting Shipman.

I learned a lot about him in a statistics book about detecting patterns. Unfortunately you can only detect them when they are laid, not before they are happening.

 

[PJ87]

I remember years ago a story doing the rounds about a rapest pretending to be a copper and pull people over

The idea was call 999 to check who is following you is a police officer

A real officer won't mind

 

[Ethan]

I learned a lot about him in a statistics book about detecting patterns. Unfortunately you can only detect them when they are laid, not before they are happening.

The revalidation system still wouldn't detect him. Shipman was really just a Trojan Horse for the system, really designed more to ensure doctors are good corporate employees and don't speak out too much.

 

[Ethan]

View attachment 38777

The police operate in a very different environment to farm hands or delivery drivers. Farm hands can't legally exercise the power to arrest or subdue someone. Farm hands don't have a track record of selecting out people with certain characteristics for attention and harassment.

Doctors come closest with regard to the special relationship they have, although as pointed out above, a number of nurses have also killed numbers of patients, but they are usually described as Angels of Death rather than sociopathic murderers.

Interestingly, all the 4 killers mentioned share another characteristic beyond gender.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The police operate in a very different environment to farm hands or delivery drivers. Farm hands can't legally exercise the power to arrest or subdue someone. Farm hands don't have a track record of selecting out people with certain characteristics for attention and harassment.

Doctors come closest with regard to the special relationship they have, although as pointed out above, a number of nurses have also killed numbers of patients, but they are usually described as Angels of Death rather than sociopathic murderers.

Interestingly, all the 4 killers mentioned share another characteristic beyond gender.

I believe the point has gone sailing over your head ?‍

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I’ve no doubt there’s many great officers in forces up and down the country equally there’s to many who abuse their power with their corruption.

who protects the public when the police break the law?

 

[Sats]

I remember years ago a story doing the rounds about a rapest pretending to be a copper and pull people over

The idea was call 999 to check who is following you is a police officer

A real officer won't mind

I can see the 999 system being swamped with verification call and serious incidents being dealt with delayed. However, I'd have no issues with anyone asking for verification I'm just not sure how it can be done effectively or without clogging the already busy 999 system.

I'm glad I don't do frontline policing anymore. Can't wait to retire.

 

[clubchamp98]

I was under the impression you are only 'forced' to stop by an officer in uniform

You can’t see his uniform in a car rear view mirror.
That’s the big thing for me . He only put his blue lights on after about two miles.
When I did stop the guy looked like a starskey and hutch scruff., not like a police officer.

 

[DanFST]

In my working life, I am regularly in the houses/apartments of Americans living here. All too often I hear from new arrivals here is how we all carry knives and people are stabbed all the time on Londons streets....because that is what their media report.
Just as we have seen how the media has contributed to the current fuel situation we must accept that the media response to WC and his actions is creating the narrative that all the police are untrustworthy.
They aren't and they can be trusted.

There was over 15,000 knife offences in London last year. I was part of those statistics, It's not just Americans that think along those lines and they aren't wrong.

It doesn't help that the polices response with me was pitiful.

 

[Ethan]

I believe the point has gone sailing over your head ?‍

OK, then, explain it to me.

 

[RichA]

Feels like you're both making the same point differently, to be fair.
Narcissistic sociopaths with negligible impulse control can end up pursuing any career and the wider communities of those doing the same job shouldn't be tainted by their horrific actions.
But no, a farm hand or lorry driver is unlikely to deceive their victim under the guise of authority.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

In the days of 'Dixon of Dock Green' Police on duty wore a stripy arm band. I know these days that would be somewhat simplistic but maybe there could be something to identify them but I can't think of what that may be.

Surely the question of on or off duty is irrelevant to the issue here.
Due to W.C actions , women are said, rightly now, to be worried about whether the police officer is going to harm them , or whether he is going to legitimately arrest them etc. ( because he is a rogue officer). Not only whether he is a police officer at all, or whether on duty.
Hence the suggestions on the lines Ive made. It's almost impossible that two officers , or an officer using public witness, would do anything to harm the women they are arresting etc.

 

[SocketRocket]

Surely the question of on or off duty is irrelevant to the issue here.
Due to W.C actions , women are said, rightly now, to be worried about whether the police officer is going to harm them , or whether he is going to legitimately arrest them etc. ( because he is a rogue officer). Not only whether he is a police officer at all, or whether on duty.
Hence the suggestions on the lines Ive made. It's almost impossible that two officers , or an officer using public witness, would do anything to harm the women they are arresting etc.

I was replying to the OPs question and admitted I didn't have the answer

 

[drdel]

I was replying to the OPs question and admitted I didn't have the answer

Trying to keep a thread focussed is a fruitless task SR: bickering is more popular.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I was replying to the OPs question and admitted I didn't have the answer

Fair enough, having read the OP initial post. ?
But like most threads, they do expand, and in this case not surprisingly so.
Difficult to keep it to "officers on duty" in view of the main issue this case has raised.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

OK, then, explain it to me.

Nice and simple

Just because someone is a policeman when he kills someone doesn’t mean all policeman are like that - don’t judge the whole police on one person actions

Just because one doctor kills someone doesn’t mean all doctors are like that

- treat each person regardless of their professions because they would have been a killer/rapist/etc in any job

 

[Ethan]

Nice and simple

Just because someone is a policeman when he kills someone doesn’t mean all policeman are like that - don’t judge the whole police on one person actions

Just because one doctor kills someone doesn’t mean all doctors are like that

- treat each person regardless of their professions because they would have been a killer/rapist/etc in any job

Well, duh, I got that, but the point I was making which apparently went over your head, is that a breezy message that not all cops/GPs or lorry drivers are killers is somewhat flavoured by the fact that one of those has legal authority to stop, search, detain, constrain, even taser or shoot you if you fail to co-operate.

If someone came up to you and said "Stop, I am a lorry driver", you might reasonably respond differently to someone saying "Stop, I am a police officer". You would be reasonably suspicious of the former and probably get out of Dodge pronto. Indeed, that difference is the whole bleeding point of this entire tragic story. Trusting the old bobby like Dixon of Dock Green (ask your parents) doesn't work any more.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Well, duh, I got that, but the point I was making which apparently went over your head, is that a breezy message that not all cops/GPs or lorry drivers are killers is somewhat flavoured by the fact that one of those has legal authority to stop, search, detain, constrain, even taser or shoot you if you fail to co-operate.

If someone came up to you and said "Stop, I am a lorry driver", you might reasonably respond differently to someone saying "Stop, I am a police officer". You would be reasonably suspicious of the former and probably get out of Dodge pronto. Indeed, that difference is the whole bleeding point of this entire tragic story. Trusting the old bobby like Dixon of Dock Green (ask your parents) doesn't work any more.

Perhaps I might interject...my point was trust, and those positions we give trust to such as priests, doctors, nurses etc. Having a legal power of stopping they don't have, but we put all our trust in them as we do the police.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Well, duh, I got that, but the point I was making which apparently went over your head, is that a breezy message that not all cops/GPs or lorry drivers are killers is somewhat flavoured by the fact that one of those has legal authority to stop, search, detain, constrain, even taser or shoot you if you fail to co-operate.

If someone came up to you and said "Stop, I am a lorry driver", you might reasonably respond differently to someone saying "Stop, I am a police officer". You would be reasonably suspicious of the former and probably get out of Dodge pronto. Indeed, that difference is the whole bleeding point of this entire tragic story. Trusting the old bobby like Dixon of Dock Green (ask your parents) doesn't work any more.

My, you do go OTT sometimes. Your last sentence in the context of your reply is inferring that hardly any policeman is now to be trusted.
Almost everyone else here accepts that most are trustworthy, with one or two bad apples, as in all professions and occupations.