Plugged ball.

[sydney greenstreet]

I had left my rule book in my works bag but did I not need it today, was on the 15th and my opponent had a plugged lie in the 1st cut, he thought he gets relief I did not as he was in the rough and not in a close mown area. Tried looking up the rule on the phone but could not load it. Who was right ?

 

[stevie_r]

Not unless it's a local ruling

 

[sydney greenstreet]

Not unless it's a local ruling

No local ruling.

 

[stevie_r]

then no he is not entitled to relief

 

[bobmac]

The local rule I have seen most often is.....

Ball plugged on the fairway....lift, clean and place
Ball plugged in the rough....lift, clean and drop

 

[Fader]

The local rule I have seen most often is.....

Ball plugged on the fairway....lift, clean and place
Ball plugged in the rough....lift, clean and drop

Thats the exact rule at our place and one I feel is extremely fair with our thick rough.

 

[Fish]

On a similar note, I have been complaining at my club for not making a local rule in regards to our bunkers.

I appreciate we have endured a lot of rain and it isn't unusual when travelling to any course and seeing bunkers half full of water.

However, when a ball has simply rolled into the bunker and is either in the water or stood proudly just out of the water which would mean I would be standing in the water, I feel it unfair to have to drop it in soft muddy sand only to watch it plug by half a ball making it now worse!

Surely when the bunkers are 75% full of water and have not been raked and are flat & muddy in outer area's, why not just rope them off and GUR them to give full relief!

Rant over, sorry its early and still annoyed.

 

[doublebogey7]

On a similar note, I have been complaining at my club for not making a local rule in regards to our bunkers.

I appreciate we have endured a lot of rain and it isn't unusual when travelling to any course and seeing bunkers half full of water.

However, when a ball has simply rolled into the bunker and is either in the water or stood proudly just out of the water which would mean I would be standing in the water, I feel it unfair to have to drop it in soft muddy sand only to watch it plug by half a ball making it now worse!

Surely when the bunkers are 75% full of water and have not been raked and are flat & muddy in outer area's, why not just rope them off and GUR them to give full relief!

Rant over, sorry its early and still annoyed.

I know this has been said before but bunkers are meant to be hazards.

Also I guess your club like ours are reluctant as the EGU rule that under such conditions any competition would be non qualifying for Handicap adjustment.

 

[pbrown7582]

I had left my rule book in my works bag but did I not need it today, was on the 15th and my opponent had a plugged lie in the 1st cut, he thought he gets relief I did not as he was in the rough and not in a close mown area. Tried looking up the rule on the phone but could not load it. Who was right ?

im with you SG not relief other than close mown areas, so play as you lie in rough.

 

[Foxholer]

The local rule I have seen most often is.....

Ball plugged on the fairway....lift, clean and place
Ball plugged in the rough....lift, clean and drop

No Local Rule needed for 'plugged on the fairway'. Rules of Golf alllows 'lift, clean and drop'.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...f-Golf.aspx#/search/?searchTerm=embedded ball

 

[bobmac]

No Local Rule needed for 'plugged on the fairway'. Rules of Golf alllows 'lift, clean and drop'.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...f-Golf.aspx#/search/?searchTerm=embedded ball

Really? I had no idea

I was of course referring to local rules used in winter golf when you can place the ball on the fairway but must drop in the rough.

 

[CMAC]

Wouldn't you drop first then place under winter preferred lies rules, to avoid a breach.

 

[Foxholer]

Really? I had no idea

I was of course referring to local rules used in winter golf when you can place the ball on the fairway but must drop in the rough.

You are not the only one!

Rules of Golf are applicable throughout the year. LRs, covering this relief, are/should be only applicable for certain periods.

Not all clubs implement both the 'preferred lies' LR and the 'Relief from embedded ball' one.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Wouldn't you drop first then place under winter preferred lies rules, to avoid a breach.

I don't think so.

If you are proceeding under the local Rule, rather than Rule 25-2, I think you would be permitted to place the ball (on the fairway) without first having to drop it.

R&A specimen local Rule for "preferred lies" states as follows

"“A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g. at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g. six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green."

 

[Colin L]

Agreed. If the LR allowing preferred lies is in place, it doesn't matter how your ball lies - plugged, sitting on top of a bit of mud, lying nicely on the grass - you have the absolute right to lift clean and place with the LR being the applicable rule.

 

[Foxholer]

Agreed. If the LR allowing preferred lies is in place, it doesn't matter how your ball lies - plugged, sitting on top of a bit of mud, lying nicely on the grass - you have the absolute right to lift clean and place with the LR being the applicable rule.

]
I also agree.

But make sure you mark it first when 'placing' it.

I warned a fellow member (an ex-Captain too) a couple of times during 'friendly' rounds that he should use the correct process - rather than simply rolling it with his club. He didn't appreciate it when my partner claimed the hole - and the match - when he simply rolled it on the 15th fairway during a club knockout match!

 

[duncan mackie]

Wouldn't you drop first then place under winter preferred lies rules, to avoid a breach.

this is exactly why any LR stating "Ball plugged on the fairway....lift, clean and place
Ball plugged in the rough....lift, clean and drop" could lead to subsequent rules issues - there are quite a few but I'll stick to one here to illustrate.

In the absence of any LR at all, the player whose ball is embedded on the fairway is entitled to relief under 25-2, may lift clean and drop as near as possible to where it lay not nearer the hole (if it returns to the pitch mark it may be re-dropped). All well and good.

If the 'normal' preferred lie rule, as MN has quoted above is in place then the player is entitled to mark, lift, clean, place within (x) and the balls in play.

Firstly, as others have responded to you, if the LR is in place for preferred lies you may simply use that to take relief from the embedded ball ie mark lift place - job done.

If you fail to mark, but drop then it's fine because you can do that under 25-2
If you fail to mark but place you have a penalty because you can't do that under either
If you drop but decide you don't like the lie you can mark, lift place under the LR
If you place from the embedded ball but change your mind and mark, lift, place again under the LR you will get a penalty because you have effectively preferred your lie twice.

All these are why, IMO, it's best practice to do as you suggest and drop from the embedded ball first, then decide if you want a preferred lie under that rule second. You would not, as others have said, be in breach of any rule to proceed directly under the LR for preferred lies if you wished.

I suspect that "Ball plugged on the fairway....lift, clean and place
Ball plugged in the rough....lift, clean and drop" is actually an attempt to shorten 2 separate winter rules into a simple one - but without clarification on where to drop/place it doesn't make sense within the rules so it's not simpler really.

 

[CMAC]

Cheers Duncan, thats excellent clarification. For the avoidance of doubt I stick with Best Practice and drop then place if I choose to

 

[Shaunmg]

My club local rule is not as generous it seems. Plugged ball in rough; lift and drop, the ball cannot be cleaned

 

[duncan mackie]

My club local rule is not as generous it seems. Plugged ball in rough; lift and drop, the ball cannot be cleaned

I would be discussing just how daft that would be with the committee at the earliest opportunity.

Do they state how they require you to remove the ball from it's embedded position in order to ensure you keep the maximum mud on it? (for clarity this is only half in jest as the way you remove the ball will have a huge impact on what remains attached so, for example, twisting it as you remove it could constitute cleaning it...)