Penalty or free drop

[Barry123]

My ball was resting against a wooden edging on a gravel path on the course. This prevented me being able to swing the club so I took a free drop. A playing partner said its a penalty drop because the ball wasnt on the path. I said its obstructing my swing because its lying against the wooden edge of the path and its an artificial obstruction. Looking at the rule 24-2 it appears i was correct but he's adamant as the ball was on the grass its a penalty drop regardless of it resting on the wooden edge obstructing a swing at the ball.

Can someone confirm if it was a free or penalty drop?

 

[Foxholer]

I agree that it's free relief, but under Rule 16 (Immovable obstructions), not 24.
Being 'on the grass' is irrelevant. It's whether there's 'interference of your stance or intended swing' that matters.

 

[Barry123]

I agree that it's free relief, but under Rule 16 (Immovable obstructions), not 24.
Being 'on the grass' is irrelevant. It's whether there's 'interference of your stance or intended swing' that matters.

Many thanks for confirming this for me. I think I was quoting the r and a rule book. Probably similar to rule 16 you refer to. Thanks again.

 

[Foxholer]

Many thanks for confirming this for me. I think I was quoting the r and a rule book. Probably similar to rule 16 you refer to. Thanks again.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-16

 

[Barry123]

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-16

Thanks again.

 

[rulefan]

Looking at the rule 24-2 it appears i was correct but he's adamant as the ball was on the grass its a penalty drop regardless of it resting on the wooden edge obstructing a swing at the ball.

Can someone confirm if it was a free or penalty drop?

I'm afraid you were looking at the old pre 2019 Rules of Golf. You need to get a new book

 

[Barry123]

I'm afraid you were looking at the old pre 2019 Rules of Golf. You need to get a new book

??

 

[jim8flog]

Many thanks for confirming this for me. I think I was quoting the r and a rule book. Probably similar to rule 16 you refer to. Thanks again.

As per others

If you were quoting the R&A rule book it is time you got yourself a current rules book. it was 24 in the pre 2019 rule book.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I'm afraid you were looking at the old pre 2019 Rules of Golf. You need to get a new book

Rules of Golf are a bit like the Highway Code for some of our members. They read it many years ago when they needed to pass their driving test but haven't looked at it since!

The new version of the Rules of Golf is just the job for stopping the outside table from rocking.

 

[rulefan]

Rules of Golf are a bit like the Highway Code for some of our members. They read it many years ago when they needed to pass their driving test but haven't looked at it since!

In this country there has never been a need to take a rules test. Unlike some European areas where a rules test was a requirement for club membership.

 

[salfordlad]

Rules of Golf are a bit like the Highway Code for some of our members. They read it many years ago when they needed to pass their driving test but haven't looked at it since!

The new version of the Rules of Golf is just the job for stopping the outside table from rocking.

I suspect that first line view is much too optimistic.

 

[rulefan]

When I first took up golf, unlike IKEA man, I decided to read the instructions on the box.
I wonder how many would attempt to play a game of Mah-jong or even Snakes and Ladders without finding out what the rules are.

 

[Barry123]

When I first took up golf, unlike IKEA man, I decided to read the instructions on the box.
I wonder how many would attempt to play a game of Mah-jong or even Snakes and Ladders without finding out what the rules are.

The problem was google. I knew it was a free drop. Problem was the person I was playing disputed it. Google doesn't omit previous incarnations of the rules doing a quick search of 'relief from an artificial obstruction'. It threw up the old rule number. I've got the latest r and a app on my phone now so there shouldn't be an issue in the future with the rules for this guy. Although he still disputes it even now ????

 

[mikejohnchapman]

When I first took up golf, unlike IKEA man, I decided to read the instructions on the box.
I wonder how many would attempt to play a game of Mah-jong or even Snakes and Ladders without finding out what the rules are.

True but the basic rules (vs tactics) are much more simple. The problem with the rules of golf are they are much more complex and the 80:20 rule applies where most people "understand" the basics but the 20% of things that happen completely flummox the average golfer. If it was crazy golf you could make it more simple or if every course was the same (like a tennis court) it could also be simplified. However, we love the fact it a complex and layered game so have to put up with the overhead.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not wishing to open another thread…so I’ll stick what happened here…

On our 2nd hole a fellow competitor ball finished close to a fence from which free relief is given. We work out where his NPR was and I walked back to my ball. My FC then does a drop - and though his knees were a little bit too bent I decide to let that pass - he did the drop knee high so was doing pretty well. I then watched as he picked up his ball and, without moving, redropped it. Eh? He mucked up his next shot and picked up.

I then asked him why he’d picked up his ball and redropped it. He replied that he didn’t like where his ball had finished…

On this point I decided that he needed to know the rule and so explained what he could not do, and what he could have done if his swing was still impended by the fence after dropping the ball.

This guy plays a lot of golf and, as we often note, I wonder how much such as ‘oh just drop it again’ comments between him and his mates finds its way into competitions.

 

[Steven Rules]

My FC then does a drop - and though his knees were a little bit too bent I decide to let that pass - he did the drop knee high so was doing pretty well.

I realise this wasn't the key point of your post but I am, nevertheless, curious.

If he dropped it from knee height, why exactly were you concerned about how bent or otherwise his knees were?

P.S. Well done on picking him up on his apparently unauthorised re-drop. I also share your concern about players who get too 'comfortable' playing in the same group all the time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I realise this wasn't the key point of your post but I am, nevertheless, curious.

If he dropped it from knee height, why exactly were you concerned about how bent or otherwise his knees were?

P.S. Well done on picking him up on his apparently unauthorised re-drop. I also share your concern about players who get too 'comfortable' playing in the same group all the time.

On the knee-bend, my understanding is that you must not drop with bended knee - otherwise I could bend my knees so that my drop from my knee level could be inches off the ground - effectively placing.

My FC was completely unaware that he could not redrop because he didn’t like where it ended up - and had no idea that as his ball had actually bounced back a little bit towards the fence he might in any case, in a new rules situation, be able to once more get free relief, but from a new NPR.

 

[salfordlad]

This "knee height" issue raises the same potential confusion and cross-purposes discussion as "club-length". It is a specific "correct" height for each of us personally (the distance your knee is above the ground when you are standing straight) and is not influenced by where your knees are physically for any given drop - eg knees bent when you drop does not change the correct height and doesn't affect the legality of the drop providing you get the drop height correct. Feel free to stand on your head and drop, providing you get the height correct.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I've developed a technique for dropping.
Keep ankle to knee vertical, rest elbow on knee, keep elbow to hand horizontal, bend back right over so eye is directly over ball and where it will land.
I have to stick other leg out behind me, with both feet on the ground, to keep balanced. I might look awkward to others, but I like the fact that I'm looking directly down on the intended spot.

 

[Colin L]

On the knee-bend, my understanding is that you must not drop with bended knee - otherwise I could bend my knees so that my drop from my knee level could be inches off the ground - effectively placing.

My FC was completely unaware that he could not redrop because he didn’t like where it ended up - and had no idea that as his ball had actually bounced back a little bit towards the fence he might in any case, in a new rules situation, be able to once more get free relief, but from a new NPR.

I think this is/was a common misunderstanding occasioned by the lllustration to Rule 14.3b in the rule book. The bottom right picture shows a drop that is wrong because the ball is being dropped from below the height of the player's knee when standing (shown by the dotted line) not because his knees are bent.