Over The Top

[swanny32]

Going down the range with a friend tomorrow evening to work on some stuff and see if we can fix this OTT swing at long last. I've been controlling it reasonably well over the last year but it's starting to come back more and more as each week passes. My pro is fully booked this week so no chance of getting a lesson, I'll work on it tomorrow night and get booked in with him next week. Just needed something to work on this week before I go and play for the club on Sunday.

 

[swanny32]

So I went to the range last night and was working on starting the downswing with my lower body, screamed a couple but also found that I was skying a fair few as well which is something I don't normally do. Why??

 

[the_coach]

So I went to the range last night and was working on starting the downswing with my lower body, screamed a couple but also found that I was skying a fair few as well which is something I don't normally do. Why??

As ever with golf, it's always a question of 'degrees'. That's why the fundamental address position, aim, alignment, ball position & posture absolutely crucial.

Yes you've got to start the downswing from the ground up, so weight goes to left foot leg.

But you gotta be really careful you ain't jumping & sliding left as this will take you upper body & head to the left some (if your backswing not quite correct your upper body & head good even be moving to the left as you take the club back), even left of the ball which is definitely what you don't want!

Lower body starts the downswing & the weight is on the left foot, left leg but the upper body still has to stay behind the ball.

If your chest, upper body moves forward to in front of the ball as well, all you'll be able to do is chop down on the ball steeply (& usually over the top, which is over the plane & steep out to in swing path.)

Couple of thoughts on these links here should help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd33h1w5KAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNTU--85mkY

 

[swanny32]

Yeah, I was definitely getting ahead of the ball and hitting down on it. In actual fact, this ties in nicely with the clinic I had with Joe Miller a couple weeks ago at Wentworth.

 

[lex!]

So I went to the range last night and was working on starting the downswing with my lower body, screamed a couple but also found that I was skying a fair few as well which is something I don't normally do. Why??

Sounds like its still going OTT and cutting across and then skying it, but your PRO will sort it of course. If I start thinking lower body I am in big trouble, I start shifting and swaying and its all over the place. I prefer quiet legs then just think of completing a turn in the backswing. Btw i played Forrester for the first time last Friday and really enjoyed it. I am new to the area so if you fancy a game anytime then please let me know.

 

[the_coach]

If you've happen to have read any of my other posts on starting the transition move, you will have noticed I speak often of ground forces, of weight pressure in the left or lead foot/leg, which enables the downswing sequence to happen in the right order.
The tip I've mentioned often is imagining a sponge under the left foot & once at the top the first thing you do is squeeze this 'imagined sponge' downwards into the ground which starts the transition from the top, but the upper body & head still stay behind the ball as the arms & club move down & the torso/shoulder turn through impact to a balanced finish.

Transition sequence starting out of order from the top is what contributes heavily to a steep, over plane out to in swing (combine that with the upper body moving left as well it gets steeper & choppier so the skied driver or lots of other not so good contacts either, pulls, pull slices, lots of height not so much forward distance. Often address position/posture & takeaway/backswing are not quite right so this is quite often why the OTT move is more likely to happen anyways.

Just had a search through the ole interweb found this, the first time I've seen anyone else talk about a sponge! some other good thoughts here, to have, to stop the OTT steep swing (around about 2'.45" there's reference to the weight pressure in the left/lead foot, although it's worth looking at it all)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2GDUGL_GTc

 

[CMAC]

If you've happen to have read any of my other posts on starting the transition move, you will have noticed I speak often of ground forces, of weight pressure in the left or lead foot/leg, which enables the downswing sequence to happen in the right order.
The tip I've mentioned often is imagining a sponge under the left foot & once at the top the first thing you do is squeeze this 'imagined sponge' downwards into the ground which starts the transition from the top, but the upper body & head still stay behind the ball as the arms & club move down & the torso/shoulder turn through impact to a balanced finish.

Transition sequence starting out of order from the top is what contributes heavily to a steep, over plane out to in swing (combine that with the upper body moving left as well it gets steeper & choppier so the skied driver or lots of other not so good contacts either, pulls, pull slices, lots of height not so much forward distance. Often address position/posture & takeaway/backswing are not quite right so this is quite often why the OTT move is more likely to happen anyways.

Just had a search through the ole interweb found this, the first time I've seen anyone else talk about a sponge! some other good thoughts here, to have, to stop the OTT steep swing (around about 2'.45" there's reference to the weight pressure in the left/lead foot, although it's worth looking at it all)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2GDUGL_GTc

more great insight and excellent video- cheers coach:thup:

embedded it for anyone else - a childs/dogs spnge that makes a sound when squeezed would work well from a sensory perspective I would think

[video=youtube_share;L2GDUGL_GTc]http://youtu.be/L2GDUGL_GTc[/video]

 

[G1BB0]

excellent vid, really liking the exercises, added to my youtube playlist

 

[swanny32]

So, I had a lesson with my pro yesterday and he told me that I'm not coming over the top enough to drastically effect the flight of the ball, he said, and showed me, that it's very minimal although I probably have a tendency to come further over the top when I get too quick.

A few things that he picked up on were simple things, which we addressed first. Because I had too much hip movement in my back swing, I was massively over swinging and letting go of the club at the top of my swing, the club would then drop a bit and open up. I'd then start my downswing, regrip the club with an open clubface and BOOM, off to the right it would go. We tightened the left hand a bit and shortened the back swing make sure I didn't cup my left wrist at the top of the swing and it straightened me out almost immediately.

We also did some work on spine tilt and staying behind the ball, which took a few shots to get used too but once I had it down, I was bombing my driver with a touch of fade, which is exactly what I want.

Next lesson we're going to work on hip resistance and keeping the lower body quieter. Looking forward to it.

 

[m9wst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P38JNe-HMsM

This the one you were on about earlier?

 

[Kellfire]

This is my major issue right now and one I've been instructed to make my swing thought; flatten the swing and attacked from the inside.

At the moment, on the range, it's producing a world of pain. I really hope it kicks in soon.

 

[the_coach]

This is my major issue right now and one I've been instructed to make my swing thought; flatten the swing and attacked from the inside.

At the moment, on the range, it's producing a world of pain. I really hope it kicks in soon.

Best way, if you're not already doing it, to achieve the above.

Is place a club or rod down few inches in front of your toes which parallel left of your ball/target line.

Align yourself to this, paying particular attention to getting the shoulders & hips parallel to this & your ball/target line.

The side of ball away from your place another rod/club down but aimed to the right of your ball/target line by some 25º or 30º.

Make a good connected backswing to top, feel your back stays looking at target while your lower body starts the downswing then swing along the line of the rod/club aimed to the right, but make sure it's to a balanced finish you can hold for 10 secs.

Try it first with a short iron swinging at 75%, get used the different swing path.
When you can hit ten in a row, up the speed to 80% another 10 in a row then 85%.
Then move to a mid iron & repeat all of the above. Move up through the bag doing the same drills long iron, hybrid, 3 metal, driver.

 

[the_coach]

Often over the top originally stems from grip, aim/alignment at address which leads to the wrong move away first off.

The wrong move is seen quite often, hands & wrists set & roll right from the get go, so the shaft very soon moves a ways too far inside around the back of the legs, which leads to a poor position at the top way too flat & behind so most who get in this place throw it all over the top & out over the plane leading to the big out to in swing path, resulting in big fades, low left to rights, big slices or big pulls left.

To get out of this it's a must to get set up including grip & particularly aim & parallel left alignment absolutely correct.

But then you've got to change the way you make the first move away by keeping hands/wrists quiet no early set no roll. So the 'arm triangle' stays intact & the club head stays 'outside' the hands so you can get to the first parallel shaft position with the butt end of the club pointing target ways and not out across ball/target line.

The shaft's then parallel to the ground the toe line & the ball/target line, from here the left wrist sets 'upwards' (doesn't bend behind bowed) the left arm gets parallel to the ground shaft at 90º then the shoulders just continue to turn to the top. The shaft's then over the top of right shoulder & not a ways down & behind the back.

Then the lower body just starts the downswing & you have a much better slightly inside to square swing path into & through impact.

Good drill, position to look at first moves going back in the vid here, if folks who struggle with too inside & flat going back can get this it'll help cure a lot of ills.

[video=youtube_share;S5D497hngDU]http://youtu.be/S5D497hngDU[/video]

 

[the_coach]

Yesterday on the course was abysmal, really cutting across the ball, much more than I normally do and hitting some big slices.

I know I'm coming over the top and this has been a problem for me since I started playing golf. I've tried the gateway drill and pump drill with my pro, which are ok during practice swings but when I actually hit the ball, my mind and body just don't want to start the club on the right path down, I come over the top and wahaaay, there she goes. OB!

Lost the will to live yesterday, anyone got any other bright ideas to help me attack the ball from the inside?

If the backswing & the position of the shaft at top of backswing is in a good place over the top of the right shoulder, really good check point to be there with shaft at the top.

As, if shaft's down behind your right shoulder & back, therefore a ways too flat, that alone will make you swing out & over the top & a swing a way's left through the ball, as there's really no place else for most folks to swing from here. Also check your shoulders, hips & feet & aimed parallel of your ball target line, neither open or closed. Check your ball position isn't too far forwards.

If the move down is initiated wrongly by the upper body the downswing will still be out over the top of the plane & out to in.

Good drill to look at for that here. Lot of folks can think this drill looks a bit innocuous & dismiss it, so continue to swing 'out to in'! Much better to actually take it seriously and have it as a drill to use, providing you can get it down it will correct the downswing swing sequence, and when you come to hit shots after will transform your ball striking capabilities.

[video=youtube_share;0mmwXaB8u5A]http://youtu.be/0mmwXaB8u5A[/video]

 

[rossymcg]

Seems a bit crackers to me asking advice of people, when you don't know if they know what they're on about, even if they do know what they're on about, they can only make presumptions in your problem because they cannot see it, your interpretation of what's wring and what really is wrong could well be way off the mark,
Post some video,
when I start dragging the ball left it's nothing to do with the top of my swing it's lower down if I release the club too early.

 

[the_coach]

Seems a bit crackers to me asking advice of people, when you don't know if they know what they're on about, even if they do know what they're on about, they can only make presumptions in your problem because they cannot see it, your interpretation of what's wring and what really is wrong could well be way off the mark,
Post some video,
when I start dragging the ball left it's nothing to do with the top of my swing it's lower down if I release the club too early.

Perhaps you missed that folks do post vids as there are in this thread already that are relevant to the problems others are having. It's a forum about asking for advice if someone wishes too. Not much point being here otherwise really.

Sound impact conditions depend on what's happened long before the club gets to impact. Set-up wrong from the start & you'll just then compound many mistakes which will lead to the golfer making then many compensatory & wrong moves in the sequence back to the ball, leading to all kinds of bad contact through impact.

If you release the, club too early, the problem you have will be much further back in your swing motion even set-up which is giving you the 'early release' problem, it's not just a problem 'lower down' by the time you get there it's already way too late too rectify given the speed, centripetal rotary motion through your body arms & club, & gravity.

 

[Foxholer]

....
If you release the, club too early, the problem you have will be much further back in your swing motion even set-up which is giving you the 'early release' problem, it's not just a problem 'lower down' by the time you get there it's already way too late too rectify given the speed, centripetal rotary motion through your body arms & club, & gravity.

Ah! The old Symptom vs Cause issue!

Or.....What's the REAL (fundamental) problem! Fix that and the symptoms disappear. 'Fix' the symptoms and there's a different, and additional, problem!