Over The Top

[swanny32]

Right lads, my pro is fully booked this week and I have our societies finals day on Friday which, with a good score, I can still place in the prizes. Yesterday on the course was abysmal, really cutting across the ball, much more than I normally do and hitting some big slices.

I know I'm coming over the top and this has been a problem for me since I started playing golf. I've tried the gateway drill and pump drill with my pro, which are ok during practice swings but when I actually hit the ball, my mind and body just don't want to start the club on the right path down, I come over the top and wahaaay, there she goes. OB!

Lost the will to live yesterday, anyone got any other bright ideas to help me attack the ball from the inside?

 

[Maninblack4612]

I do this too. Forget the arms. From the top, rotate the shoulders & upper body, feel as if the shoulders are dragging the arms around. Works for me.

 

[Foxholer]

Apart from slowing the start of the down-swing, there's a couple of 'fixes' that I have seen work. Thought of swinging between bowler and mid-off works for me - as long as wrists are solid through impact. A better fix is the try and keep you balance more towards your heels - even on them at first - throughout the swing. An ott swing pitches you towards your toes, so you are countering that effect.

If it's really messing with your head on the course, a pure band-aid job is to just set up aiming right and live with a pull - doesn't fix anything, but can get you through a round without it completely destroying you game. Gives you something 'positive' to think about rather than negative, which tends to help you enjoy the round more anyway!

 

[jak kez 187]

I find that feeling like i start the downswing with my lower half helps me to stop swinging over the top.
Slightly bump the hips towards target helps me to open them up and my arms lag behind a bit more and come down on plane.
Having said that I went to the range the other day and was hitting some of the worst slices i've ever hit after 4 months of hitting non so it could be back to square 1, golf for you!

 

[Foxholer]

...
Having said that I went to the range the other day and was hitting some of the worst slices i've ever hit after 4 months of hitting non so it could be back to square 1, golf for you!

Could be a completely different reason! Push Fade/Slices do exist. The swing path issue may be fixed, but if the arms are behind the body (not uncommon when 'fixing' ott, as you concentrate on moving the body and 'forget' the arms), an open face is the likely result. It's all about sequencing and timing!

 

[swanny32]

Aiming right and pulling is definitely not an option for me, I have the occasional pull here and there but I wouldn't be confident of hitting a pull and some of the holes at our course are very tight down the right side with lots of OB.

Saw a video with a drill where you drop the club at the top of your back swing, might go and give that a go in the back garden in a bit.

 

[Tommo21]

In my opinion lots of players who start out, and some veterans, think you line your body to the target, rather than being parallel. That means you have to pull the ball to get it on line.
Proper alignment and ball position is the key then have a look at this Hogan vid. It really explains it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0

 

[Foxholer]

In my opinion lots of players who start out, and some veterans, think you line your body to the target, rather than being parallel. That means you have to pull the ball to get it on line.
Proper alignment and ball position is the key then have a look at this Hogan vid. It really explains it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0

While certainly valid, and good practice, I don't believe lining your body up a yard to the left of a pin 200+ yards away is all that significant to pointing them AT the pin. The swing path - in relation to the body - has a much more significant effect on the shape imo.

Btw. 'If you don't mind', I prefer this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EplK2bTjDCk :whoo:

 

[the_coach]

Right lads, my pro is fully booked this week and I have our societies finals day on Friday which, with a good score, I can still place in the prizes. Yesterday on the course was abysmal, really cutting across the ball, much more than I normally do and hitting some big slices.

I know I'm coming over the top and this has been a problem for me since I started playing golf. I've tried the gateway drill and pump drill with my pro, which are ok during practice swings but when I actually hit the ball, my mind and body just don't want to start the club on the right path down, I come over the top and wahaaay, there she goes. OB!

Lost the will to live yesterday, anyone got any other bright ideas to help me attack the ball from the inside?

Over the top of plane, out to in happens on the way down because the upper body, shoulders chest arms & club start the downswing move first.
Often occurs because of how the club was taken back. Start the downswing with the shoulders arms upper body & you'll never get rid of it.

Long term fix, means doing a bunch of things differently, if you want I can explain in detail. Fix will depend of which of the causes of this problem is giving you the issue, could be one or a couple if things together. Can be fixed though with some precise changes & judicious practice.

But that said short term fix: do everything you can to make absolutely sure your grip is correct & you're aimed & aligned properly relevant to your target & ball target line.

At top of the swing make sure the shoulder turn is complete but that the arms & club stop when the upper body/shoulder turn stops, no over swinging of arms alone or collapsing of the elbows.

Then feel that you leave your back 'looking' at target & do feel you do 'nothing' with your shoulders & arms they feel fractionally still.
Feel your lower body initiate the downswing from the ground up & feel that your abdomen turns to target which pulls then on your upper chest shoulders & arms & club, feel they are being 'pulled down' into impact & then your arms & club move past your chin & head until your right shoulder pulls your head up in the through swing to a fully balanced finish.

Keep in mind the swing is, from the end of the backswing led by the lower body through impact & 'collection of the ball' on the face, that way you get acceleration through impact & not a hit instinct when everything kinda stops pretty soon after contact in terms of proper momentum.

If you get to the range put a club or a rod down the other side of the ball furthest away from you.

But put it aimed right (about 30º right of your target, ball/target line.

You line the club face square to target, align yourself square, parallel left of the target & ball/target line but you aim to swing down & through impact along the line of the rod/club that you've aimed right of target.

 

[SocketRocket]

Try the drill in this video, it should help:

[video=youtube;YVI65Vw08dA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVI65Vw08dA[/video]

 

[macca64]

Over the top of plane, out to in happens on the way down because the upper body, shoulders chest arms & club start the downswing move first.
Often occurs because of how the club was taken back. Start the downswing with the shoulders arms upper body & you'll never get rid of it.

Long term fix, means doing a bunch of things differently, if you want I can explain in detail. Fix will depend of which of the causes of this problem is giving you the issue, could be one or a couple if things together. Can be fixed though with some precise changes & judicious practice.

But that said short term fix: do everything you can to make absolutely sure your grip is correct & you're aimed & aligned properly relevant to your target & ball target line.

At top of the swing make sure the shoulder turn is complete but that the arms & club stop when the upper body/shoulder turn stops, no over swinging of arms alone or collapsing of the elbows.

Then feel that you leave your back 'looking' at target & do feel you do 'nothing' with your shoulders & arms they feel fractionally still.
Feel your lower body initiate the downswing from the ground up & feel that your abdomen turns to target which pulls then on your upper chest shoulders & arms & club, feel they are being 'pulled down' into impact & then your arms & club move past your chin & head until your right shoulder pulls your head up in the through swing to a fully balanced finish.

Keep in mind the swing is, from the end of the backswing led by the lower body through impact & 'collection of the ball' on the face, that way you get acceleration through impact & not a hit instinct when everything kinda stops pretty soon after contact in terms of proper momentum.

If you get to the range put a club or a rod down the other side of the ball furthest away from you.

But put it aimed right (about 30º right of your target, ball/target line.

You line the club face square to target, align yourself square, parallel left of the target & ball/target line but you aim to swing down & through impact along the line of the rod/club that you've aimed right of target.

when you start the downswing with the the lower body, is that a slide of the hips, or a rotation ?

 

[the_coach]

when you start the downswing with the the lower body, is that a slide of the hips, or a rotation ?

It's a small lateral movement left with the hips, more a small bump left, you don't want a rotation straight away, but neither do you want a big slide left either, a big slide will get the arms & club stuck too far behind you in the downswing leading to the hands flipping through impact.

But this smallish lateral bump left is itself is brought about really by the weight pressure squeezing down into the ground in the left (or lead) foot, this brings the left knee back in line so the hips moves laterally a few inches before it starts to turn & clear, more of a little lateral bump left a couple of inches.

If you just rotate/turn & clear the hips straight away you just spin out the right hip towards the ball/target line which just throws the shoulders arms/club straight away over the plane, the over the top move you don't want.

If you can practice on grass with 2 alignment rods, put one at tour left heel vertically so at the top it'll be 2" or 3" away from your left hip than at transition feel weight in your left foot first & your hip just move to touch the rod before it rotates/turns left & clears.

While your doing this you can use another rod to check you don't sway right, away from the ball in the backswing.

Just push another rod into the ground at your right heel but this one is angled up the right leg so at address it's touching your right hip. Then as you take the club away & go into the backswing make sure your right hip turns inside this rod, it doesn't push this rod to the right away from target. Good feeling is that you right back wallet pocket actually is moving in the direction towards the target & not to the right away from target.

NB: Make sure both rods are pushed in the ground far enough, particularly the right side one so you don't catch your arms on it in the downswing.

 

[macca64]

It's a small lateral movement left with the hips, more a small bump left, you don't want a rotation straight away, but neither do you want a big slide left either, a big slide will get the arms & club stuck too far behind you in the downswing leading to the hands flipping through impact.

But this smallish lateral bump left is itself is brought about really by the weight pressure squeezing down into the ground in the left (or lead) foot, this brings the left knee back in line so the hips moves laterally a few inches before it starts to turn & clear, more of a little lateral bump left a couple of inches.

If you just rotate/turn & clear the hips straight away you just spin out the right hip towards the ball/target line which just throws the shoulders arms/club straight away over the plane, the over the top move you don't want.

If you can practice on grass with 2 alignment rods, put one at tour left heel vertically so at the top it'll be 2" or 3" away from your left hip than at transition feel weight in your left foot first & your hip just move to touch the rod before it rotates/turns left & clears.

While your doing this you can use another rod to check you don't sway right, away from the ball in the backswing.

Just push another rod into the ground at your right heel but this one is angled up the right leg so at address it's touching your right hip. Then as you take the club away & go into the backswing make sure your right hip turns inside this rod, it doesn't push this rod to the right away from target. Good feeling is that you right back wallet pocket actually is moving in the direction towards the target & not to the right away from target.

NB: Make sure both rods are pushed in the ground far enough, particularly the right side one so you don't catch your arms on it in
the downswing.

Nice one, pretty much wot I was I told when I was having lessons, very tricky to get right for me, lots of tops, got another one next week, 1st for 18 mnths must work at it this time !!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Trying to hit the ball too hard? Very often the root cause of a pull, trying to squeeze those extra few yards out of the swing.

Easy tempo, feel the right shoulder passing under your chin :thup:

 

[macca64]

Trying to hit the ball too hard? Very often the root cause of a pull, trying to squeeze those extra few yards out of the swing.

Easy tempo, feel the right shoulder passing under your chin :thup:

Defo, got the tempo sorted (I think ) on the short irons, long irons and fariway a real problem at the moment,

 

[the_coach]

Nice one, pretty much wot I was I told when I was having lessons, very tricky to get right for me, lots of tops, got another one next week, 1st for 18 mnths must work at it this time !!

If lots of tops, you need to make sure that weight gets to the left side, not a big jump with the weight, try feeling you've a sponge under your left foot & you're just firmly squeezing water out of it, then feel the small hip bump then hip turn left.

Try to make sure you're not leaving the weight on the right leg coming into impact, it will cause you to lean back some that makes the arms hands & club work upwards so you get the 'tops' or 'thins', leave a ways too much weight on the right side & it will cause your hands to flip with the left wrist collapsing upwards through impact.

 

[macca64]

If lots of tops, you need to make sure that weight gets to the left side, not a big jump with the weight, try feeling you've a sponge under your left foot & you're just firmly squeezing water out of it, then feel the small hip bump then hip turn left.

Try to make sure you're not leaving the weight on the right leg coming into impact, it will cause you to lean back some that makes the arms hands & club work upwards so you get the 'tops' or 'thins', leave a ways too much weight on the right side & it will cause your hands to flip with the left wrist collapsing upwards through impact.

Blimey, its like you can see my swing !!!!!!

 

[the_coach]

Blimey, its like you can see my swing !!!!!!

Ha ....

It's easier to cure than you probably think, just takes some precise working through to get the sequencing right.
Helps often to practice with say an 8i at just 70% speed, gives you the time to 'feel' the correct timed & sequenced moves.

First off though make sure the grip, aim, alignment & posture are all in the right place.
Good luck with it

 

[One Planer]

This is something, probably, a little personal to me......

But.

I find it much easier to move my hips and weight correctly if I complete my backswing. My worst swings into an OTT move seem to come when I get 'quick' in transition.

I don't let my back swing finish and power down with my arms.

My best swings come when I let my backswing finish, with my back to target, then make a conscious effort to move my left hip and weight more left. If I do this the arms/shoulders/upper body take acre of themselves.

Probably utter tosh, but I find it helps me.

 

[the_coach]

No, that's completely true, you've gotta finish the backswing shoulder/body pivot, for sure. Feeling your back look at target as your shoulders arms feel still fractionally is a good feel to have as your lower body starts the downswing as I outlined earlier.
All good things to do.

Most problems with OTT can be traced to start off with grip position, grip pressure & the first couple feet of the takeaway any independent move of rolling or hinging the wrists which will dictate the direction of the path of the backswing which will have a great bearing on the swing path down & to impact.