One for the shaft\ball flight experts

[HawkeyeMS]

OK, so I've had my PX 5.0 shafts in my AP2s for a week now and had a couple of range sessions and a round yesterday. It's difficult to say if I'm getting the extra few yards that I thought I was losing at this early stage but I think I am. What I am noticing is that I feel I am getting the yardage without forcing it which I felt I had to do with the 5.5s so these shafts definately feel better for me (that's the point of CF right?)

Anyway, the biggest difference I have noticed is that I am no longer hitting a push fade but now seem to be hitting a push draw with my irons. My Woods and hybrid still seemed to have the same push fade flight so nothing has changed there, just with the irons. Is it possible that a slightly softer shaft could be changing the shape of the shot like this?

Over to you experts.

 

[Ethan]

Probably a good analysis. A softer shaft may be releasing through the ball a bit more. With some practice you should be able to hold it and minuse or eliminate that draw if you don't want it.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

OK, so I've had my PX 5.0 shafts in my AP2s for a week now and had a couple of range sessions and a round yesterday. It's difficult to say if I'm getting the extra few yards that I thought I was losing at this early stage but I think I am. What I am noticing is that I feel I am getting the yardage without forcing it which I felt I had to do with the 5.5s so these shafts definately feel better for me (that's the point of CF right?)

Anyway, the biggest difference I have noticed is that I am no longer hitting a push fade but now seem to be hitting a push draw with my irons. My Woods and hybrid still seemed to have the same push fade flight so nothing has changed there, just with the irons. Is it possible that a slightly softer shaft could be changing the shape of the shot like this?

Over to you experts.

Firstly....what's a 'push draw'? A draw starts right of target then moves back to the left in the air. Is this what you are seeing?

Secondly....yes, the shafts may very well be accounting for the change of shape. You are probably flexing a softer shaft a bit more thus allowing it to move the clubhead past your hands through the impact zone.

This clip shows it quite clearly although it is a bit extreme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dToMXNNpbrM

 

[Kellfire]

This clip shows it quite clearly although it is a bit extreme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dToMXNNpbrM

Erm no, that video basically says that the effect is minimal and to ignore the shaft bend you think is there!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Firstly....what's a 'push draw'? A draw starts right of target then moves back to the left in the air. Is this what you are seeing?

Secondly....yes, the shafts may very well be accounting for the change of shape. You are probably flexing a softer shaft a bit more thus allowing it to move the clubhead past your hands through the impact zone.

This clip shows it quite clearly although it is a bit extreme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dToMXNNpbrM

Have you not read any of James' ball flight posts

Yeah starts right and draws back, my fade started right and fade right

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Probably a good analysis. A softer shaft may be releasing through the ball a bit more. With some practice you should be able to hold it and minuse or eliminate that draw if you don't want it.

Not sure I want to eliminate it, I don't hit the fade on purpose, it just happens. I was just interested in whether the shaft could turn a fade into a draw.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

my fade started right and fade right

I'm not going to get into an argument but that's not a fade.

Sorry to have tried to help you out.

 

[Foxholer]

Firstly....what's a 'push draw'? A draw starts right of target then moves back to the left in the air. Is this what you are seeing?

Secondly....yes, the shafts may very well be accounting for the change of shape. You are probably flexing a softer shaft a bit more thus allowing it to move the clubhead past your hands through the impact zone.

This clip shows it quite clearly although it is a bit extreme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dToMXNNpbrM

Erm no, that video basically says that the effect is minimal and to ignore the shaft bend you think is there!

Completely agree with Kellfire here!

That video shows the effect of the way in which digital scanning works on relatively fast moving objects and is nothing to do with shaft flex! On a fast moving car moving teft to right, that skew would also move the wheels further to the right than reality!

And Google Push-Draw for more info about that - or other ball flights!

 

[bobmac]

Is it possible that a slightly softer shaft could be changing the shape of the shot like this?

Yes

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Completely agree with Kellfire here!

That video shows the effect of the way in which digital scanning works on relatively fast moving objects and is nothing to do with shaft flex! On a fast moving car moving teft to right, that skew would also move the wheels further to the right than reality!

And Google Push-Draw for more info about that - or other ball flights!

I did say that the video was extreme but I just did a quick google search to show something to highlight the point that I was trying to make. Are you not aware that the flex of the shaft causes the clubhead to overtake the hands as you come down and through the hitting area?

 

[Phil2511]

I'm not going to get into an argument but that's not a fade.

Sorry to have tried to help you out.

D4S what is it? I was told if it starts right and goes more right its practically nothing more than a slice. The ball flight laws thrmselves don't interest me. All I want is a repeatable swing that will allow me to predict where the ball is going to go and hopefully get that to happen.

To Hawkeye I would have expected the softer shaft to be more suited to a draw than the stiffer one.

I know when people that play stiffer shafts and then hit mine they get a big draw as opposed to a subtle draw. Or sometimes a hook lol.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

D4S what is it? I was told if it starts right and goes more right its practically nothing more than a slice. The ball flight laws thrmselves don't interest me. All I want is a repeatable swing that will allow me to predict where the ball is going to go and hopefully get that to happen.

To Hawkeye I would have expected the softer shaft to be more suited to a draw than the stiffer one.

I know when people that play stiffer shafts and then hit mine they get a big draw as opposed to a subtle draw. Or sometimes a hook lol.

Phil

A fade starts just left of the target and moves a little to the right, a slice is the same but more exaggerated. If it starts right of the target, it's not a fade.

 

[JustOne]

I'm not going to get into an argument but that's not a fade.

If a ball moves to the right it is fading, it doesn't matter where it started.






Yes the shaft could be unloading prematurely Mike [ooooerrr!] whereby the club head fractionally passes the shaft into impact, closing, or certainly gets to a position that you're not used to it being in.

There's a couple of things to consider... you got fitted so they should be the right shafts for you... but now you're not swinging as hard (or loading the shaft the same)... so now they are not the right shafts for you... you gotta swing PROPERLY as you did in your fitting That said if you're liking the way you are hitting /swinging then stick with it.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm not going to get into an argument but that's not a fade.

Sorry to have tried to help you out.

I'm not sure what you took offence to but whatever it was I'm sorry. We've done the ball flight laws enough on here and I don't want to do it again. Whatever you want to call it, my fade started right of my target line and curved a few yards right, the draw starts right of my target and comes back left to the target. All I'm really interested in is whether the shaft alone could change the flight.

Any input is appreciated, thanks for the video

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Phil

A fade starts just left of the target and moves a little to the right, a slice is the same but more exaggerated. If it starts right of the target, it's not a fade.

http://free-online-golf-tips.com/fundamental-golf-tips/golf-swing-tips/golf-ball-flight-diagram/

This should help a little.

 

[Kellfire]

http://free-online-golf-tips.com/fundamental-golf-tips/golf-swing-tips/golf-ball-flight-diagram/

This should help a little.

Good luck.

 

[One Planer]

I'm not going to get into an argument but that's not a fade.

You're right.... It's a push fade.

The way I see it is this.

If a ball starts to the right of your toe line, it's a push.

If a ball starts to the left of your toe line, it's a pull.

What shape you get after that, be it draw, fade, hook, slice, straight, whatever, is added to the initial direction of the ball relative to your toe line at address.

Edit:

I posted this on a previous thread.

The read line is my toe line at address. The yellow line is my ball flight. Starts right of my toe line (push) then fades at the top of its flight.

 

[Foxholer]

Phil

A fade starts just left of the target and moves a little to the right, a slice is the same but more exaggerated. If it starts right of the target, it's not a fade.

You have just perfectly described the Pull-Fade (and its angrier cousin Pull-Slice) and the Push-Fade. What else would you call the (mild version) of the last flight description?

I did say that the video was extreme but I just did a quick google search to show something to highlight the point that I was trying to make. Are you not aware that the flex of the shaft causes the clubhead to overtake the hands as you come down and through the hitting area?

No. That video was an example of using the wrong demonstration to get across a point.

 

[JustOne]

For the sake of it (and Gordon's) I've added push-fade (white) and pull-draw (red) to the diagram..

[click pic to enlarge...]

 

[HawkeyeMS]

For the sake of it (and Gordon's) I've added push-fade (white) and pull-draw (red) to the diagram..

[click pic to enlarge...]

View attachment 4020

I was hoping it wouldn't come to this.