Naming a provisional ball

[JohnnyF]

In a recent club matchplay game, my opponent hit his first ball on a par 3 well into the the trees/bushes to the left of a hole - he then said "I'll hit another" - as we walked off the tee he told me that "My first ball had pink dots and the second had a blue line" - I heard a shout of "Found my first one" and as i putted to the hole i saw the ball that he had chipped onto the green - surprise surprise it had a blue line - he sunk the putt to halve the hole. - when i asked him he simply said "Oh no the blue line was my first ball" - Not sure what the rules should have been or what my right of challenge may have been in these circumstances? Left a pretty sour taste especially as I lost on the first extra hole

 

[HomerJSimpson]

In a recent club matchplay game, my opponent hit his first ball on a par 3 well into the the trees/bushes to the left of a hole - he then said "I'll hit another" - as we walked off the tee he told me that "My first ball had pink dots and the second had a blue line" - I heard a shout of "Found my first one" and as i putted to the hole i saw the ball that he had chipped onto the green - surprise surprise it had a blue line - he sunk the putt to halve the hole. - when i asked him he simply said "Oh no the blue line was my first ball" - Not sure what the rules should have been or what my right of challenge may have been in these circumstances? Left a pretty sour taste especially as I lost on the first extra hole

My understanding is he declared the first ball as pink spots and therefore that is the ball in play. If he hit the other surely he isn't able to claim beyond refute that he has identified the ball. I'd have claimed loss of hole and told him he had clearly said the pink markings were in play at the time of hitting the provisional

 

[Bdill93]

In a recent club matchplay game, my opponent hit his first ball on a par 3 well into the the trees/bushes to the left of a hole - he then said "I'll hit another" - as we walked off the tee he told me that "My first ball had pink dots and the second had a blue line" - I heard a shout of "Found my first one" and as i putted to the hole i saw the ball that he had chipped onto the green - surprise surprise it had a blue line - he sunk the putt to halve the hole. - when i asked him he simply said "Oh no the blue line was my first ball" - Not sure what the rules should have been or what my right of challenge may have been in these circumstances? Left a pretty sour taste especially as I lost on the first extra hole

Identify the ball markings before a shot is played

Is the second ball a provisional if he's "hitting another"? In my mind that's 3 off the tee...

I also would have called him out for not appropriately saying which ball was which and changing mid hole - not acceptable and probably terms for loss of hole

 

[Orikoru]

He told you the blue line ball was the provisional, so that was all the information you had to go on. You have to hold him to that really. You should have called him on it.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Identify the ball markings before a shot is played

Is the second ball a provisional if he's "hitting another"? In my mind that's 3 off the tee...

I also would have called him out for not appropriately saying which ball was which and changing mid hole - not acceptable and probably terms for loss of hole

Close enough to the definition of provisional to be a provisional, you don't have to use the words provisional ball

But regarding the pink v blue, he's just a cheat

 

[wjemather]

You don't have to use the word provisional but you do have to make it clear that it is a provisional, for example, by adding words such as "just in case".
Rule 18.3b explicitly states that only saying you are playing another ball (e.g. "I'll hit another") is not enough, and doing so is putting another ball in play under stroke and distance.

 

[rulefan]

His second ball was the ball in play so he played a 'wrong ball'.

 

[Crazyface]

His second ball was the ball in play so he played a 'wrong ball'.

LOL. This, I think, (know) is the answer!

 

[Deleted member 30522]

His second ball was the ball in play so he played a 'wrong ball'.

You don't think this applies?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I was going to be flippant at the start of this and say I always name my provisional ball Gary

 

[Colin L]

His second ball was unarguably his ball in play if he only said "I'll play another" and those who thought that was enough should learn or be in for a nasty surprise one of those days.

First he said his second ball had a blue line which would mean he continued with the correct ball having played 3 off the tee. Then he said his blue lined ball was his original which would meant he played a wrong ball and lost the hole. My thought is that he was at it and only said it was his original because he did not know of the stroke and distance penalty.

Your only recourse is to the committee by saying before starting the next hole that you would seek a ruling. He would have to be questioned in order to resolve the contradictions as the blue lined ball obviously cannot be both his original and his second. Whatever his answer, I'd take from there (assumption of player integrity) and the hope would be that he would lose the hole anyway because of the stroke and distance penalty.

Alternatively he loses the hole for messing with my mind.

 

[Orikoru]

You don't think this applies?

View attachment 55105

It's a grey area but I find that most people always assume you're hitting a provisional unless you say otherwise - if anything the rule should be written in reverse to reflect that. i.e. you have to state clearly that it's not a provisional. Just speaking hypothetically of course. But yeah, if someone I'm playing with said "Hmm, I'll hit another one.." I would always take that to mean provisional. Alternatively I'd expect him to say something more along the lines of "That's gone - I'm going 3 off the tee" if it was his intention to do that.

 

[wjemather]

You don't think this applies?

View attachment 55105

The statement preceding the one you quote also applies, and from the description of the scenario here, the player did not in any way indicate their intention was to play a provisional.

 

[Colin L]

You don't think this applies?

View attachment 55105

Yes it applies but see Rule 18.3b which wjemather referenced above. "I'll play another" isn't clear.. It could equally mean I'll play another under stroke and distance.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I was going to be flippant at the start of this and say I always name my provisional ball Gary

Me too!

 

[rulefan]

You don't think this applies?

View attachment 55105

"he then said "I'll hit another"

18.3b/1 Examples of announcements that do not clearly indicate the player is playing a provisional ball and mean that the player would be putting a ball into play under stroke and distance include: ”

• “I’m going to play another.”

 

[Crow]

Why have this wishy washy uncertainty about playing a provisional?
It would be much clearer if the rules simply required that a player had to declare that the ball they were hitting was a PROVISIONAL.

No grey area and, more importantly, no more drawn out threads on the forum.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Why have this wishy washy uncertainty about playing a provisional?
It would be much clearer if the rules simply required that a player had to declare that the ball they were hitting was a PROVISIONAL.

No grey area and, more importantly, no more drawn out threads on the forum.

Well it kinda does, but with exceptions

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's a grey area but I find that most people always assume you're hitting a provisional unless you say otherwise - if anything the rule should be written in reverse to reflect that. i.e. you have to state clearly that it's not a provisional. Just speaking hypothetically of course. But yeah, if someone I'm playing with said "Hmm, I'll hit another one.." I would always take that to mean provisional. Alternatively I'd expect him to say something more along the lines of "That's gone - I'm going 3 off the tee" if it was his intention to do that.

It’s written the way it is - so if a player with me has not made clear what he is doing I will ask ‘are you playing a provisional or putting a new ball in play’. Often I’ll simply ask the first part and not bother with the ‘new ball’ bit. I’ve never had any issue from anyone when I so ask - and sometimes I have to ask more than once. So be it.

 

[Orikoru]

It’s written the way it is - so if a player with me has not made clear what he is doing I will ask ‘are you playing a provisional or putting a new ball in play’. Often I’ll simply ask the first part and not bother with the ‘new ball’ bit. I’ve never had any issue from anyone when I so ask - and sometimes I have to ask more than once. So be it.

Yeah I often do the same. "You going provisional?" Answer: "yep". Problem avoided.