My Club says no to GPS

[Robobum]

Beaker, try using the same argument when they ask you for this year's subs.

"Sorry some people can't afford this year's subs so we're not going to have any!!"

 

[viscount17]

If people don't want to use them they don't have to, but why stop those who do?

If people are against them and don't want to use them, then fine, I can see where they are coming from but if people want to use them then they should be allowed at least then people can have the choice?!

My read on this is that your club has chosen to maintain a level playing field - all or none. Nothing wrong with this.
Where they may have gone wrong is in a clumsy explanation.

Yes, eventually all clubs may permit their use but the failure is not your club's it is the R&A and USGA who have permitted (encouraged) this situation by failing to make a clear cut decision.

As I said earlier, my club have also banned them in comps, but I'm not bleating about it. I can use it in practice rounds to fine tune my read of my course just as the pro's do before a comp.

I suspect Homer will permit their use at the Ascot meet but will Dodger do the same for Goswick?

 

[Dodger]

Club committees have to make decisions based on all the membership, not just a few.

It may be a lame excuse to some, but to me, I cant justify the cost of one right now so anyone with one would have an advantage over me in a match.

The second thing is that how big an issue is it anyway? The club say no, so why challenge it?


My personal view is that gps takes away a significant amount of golf judgement, which in itself is a skill.

Your home club is one place where you shouldnt need it anyway.


Brilliant reply by Vig! So so true though.

I still do not know how people can keep banging on about 'GPS takes away a significant amount of golf judgement, which in itself is a skill'.........I take it these people do not ever ever use Strokesavers,yardage markers etc?? If so their defense case falls on it's arse totally.

I know we have been down here before but GPS is just a glorified strokesaver,only difference is more yardages to choose from and therefore quicker to use!!!!

 

[Parmo]

To me its a lame excuse from committees throughout the country full of old men wanting to hold on to their old school ways regardless of the future of golf.

It has been proven not only by GM but other tests that GPS speeds up play and would help towards eradicating slow play and if that is not reason enough then I don't know what is or is there a connection between the two?

 

[Robobum]

I thought "seeing" was a sense and not a skill.

I've looked at the EGU elite skills test and have still not found "Judge 100yds by sight" in there.

Tom Kite would have been f**ed back in the day!! Although he wasn't allowed eye surgery at certain clubs as other members may not be able to afford it!!

 

[Beaker]

Viscount I agree, if the R&A had just said yes or no then clubs wouldn't have this problem.

It's the fact that my club always go on about trying to take the club forward and then the reason that "Well they are expensive and not everyone can afford them"

Again, i understand that not everyone can, i don't get paid alot and saved to buy one. If they are banning it for this reason, which they said they were, then why not ban something like electric trolleys? I can't afford one of those and im sure others can't? And you could arrgue they give a small edge over someone who carries?

I think the GPS issue is going to create some debate for a long time!

 

[Herbie]

Club committees have to make decisions based on all the membership, not just a few.

It may be a lame excuse to some, but to me, I cant justify the cost of one right now so anyone with one would have an advantage over me in a match.

The second thing is that how big an issue is it anyway? The club say no, so why challenge it?


My personal view is that gps takes away a significant amount of golf judgement, which in itself is a skill.

Your home club is one place where you shouldnt need it anyway.


Brilliant reply by Vig! So so true though.

I still do not know how people can keep banging on about 'GPS takes away a significant amount of golf judgement, which in itself is a skill'.........I take it these people do not ever ever use Strokesavers,yardage markers etc?? If so their defense case falls on it's arse totally.

I know we have been down here before but GPS is just a glorified strokesaver,only difference is more yardages to choose from and therefore quicker to use!!!!

If you mean me dodger then say so, dont hide.
When you are at a point that isnt on a yardage chart then judgement comes in, gps can have every point there is programmed into it so ZERO judgement is often required.
To use your turn of phrase, Some people who use gps use it for a reason, if there is no benefit other than saving 1.00412400 seconds per shot surely the whole idea of gps falls flat on its arse? Its a toy that people like to have because pros use them, they are handy and more often than not accurate, they can store every distance you could ever need if programmed, as for yardage charts and stroke savers, they do not store as much information that gps are capable of.
Im just satisfied that up to now no one using a gps has beaten me yet so maybe they are not all they are idolised as being and therefor all the reasoning and arguments by Golfing professional bodies, golf club committees and officials etc is the debate of the elite that in your mind would have no foundation whatsoever. If GPS doesnt take something away, or AID unfairly why the hell are the organisations at the top of this game having trouble making decisions on it? Maybe if they all had one they would be as superior as you and see the light.
Finally I have never seen anyone use one of these things quickly, maybe I have played with the wrong people.

 

[TonyN]

My club has also banned them for comps, though I don't know the reason why - haven't asked. I don't see it as a big issue.

most elder members probably dont like them so the committy wouldn't want to upset them by giving the younger(more technically minded) golfer an advantage.

'The young people of today are much more advanced than people your age. We grew up with television, jet planes, space travel, man walking on the moon and the internet. We have cell phones, nuclear energy, electric and hydrogen cars,computers, automated manufacturing, amazing technologies'

'You're right, son. We didn't have those things when we were young..... so we invented them. Now,
what are YOU doing for the next generation?'

Hey you didn't quote my smiley? I hope i didnt offend anyone, The indicated the light humour

 

[Dodger]

Calm down calm down!!Who's hiding,sure my names on the post... Yes you and several others have come up with the skill card,I am willing to bet you have tried to pick out a point where you could still roughly assure you have a distance read when you have been so far off line and to be fair judgement still needs to be used when calculating distance to the pin. I am also willing to bet it doesn't add up to 1.00412400 second per shot you quote time saving but will stand corrected if your figure is correct.I can think of many more benefits than saving time but as said before each to their own......

 

[TonyN]

Club committees have to make decisions based on all the membership, not just a few.

It may be a lame excuse to some, but to me, I cant justify the cost of one right now so anyone with one would have an advantage over me in a match.

Interested to know if ALL the members where asked there opinion on this?

It is a lame excuse, I cant afford(sorry wont afford) an electric trolley so people who I play with have who use them have a significant advantage over me because I am sure to fatigue more through the round. I know that is a lame example, but its equally as lame as the reason they provided for banning them.

What about people who can't afford to play with the premium balls? Surley those who can may gain an advantage by using them.

GPS are faster, no doubt. Anyone who plays slower with a GPS does so on purpose, they must do.

Before I got mine, I used to pace out my shots from the 150, 100 yard markers. This could take an extra 30 seconds on my shots. Today, I didn't look for a marker once, I walked straight up to my ball, had a look at the yardage whilst I put my bag down and played the shot. Picked up and walked to the ball. You have definitly played with the werong people Herb

 

[Macster]

"My personal view is that gps takes away a significant amount of golf judgement, which in itself is a skill.

Your home club is one place where you shouldnt need it anyway."

Precisely. Well said.

:-/

 

[Leftie]

My best skill on a golf course is being able to fairly accurately pace out yardages (wish I had an equal skill for hitting the ball). So in a serious game I might pace out from ball to 150 marker and back, or to the green, greenside bunker or whatever and back, select club and take shot. That process could take anywhere between 15 secs and a minute or so.

Now, with a SC2.5 I don't have to bother anymore, the gizmo does it for me and I don't really mind not using this skill - a quick look while someone else may be setting up for their shot and I'm ready. Say an average of 20 - 30 seconds saving on possibly 35 - 40 or more shots - a possible 20 minute saving for one player over the round!

Can't see how anyone can argue against that. And that's just one of the benifits.

 

[Smiffy]

When I got through to the final of a betterball competition at Crowborough, a good mate of mine asked if he could caddie for me.
I asked the secretary and she said that there was no reason why not. Our opponents possible "objections" (of which there weren't any anyway) didn't even come into the equation, so why should a GPS system give anybody an "unfair" advantage?
Even with the help of Norman (my best mate caddy) we still lost 2&1 by the way...lot of good he was!!

 

[SammmeBee]

Beaker - does your club allow buggies?

 

[SammmeBee]

When you are at a point that isnt on a yardage chart then judgement comes in, gps can have every point there is programmed into it....

I think this is actually a postive for having a GPS....being someone who rarely sees the fairway (well at least the right one) knowing how far you have has improved my golf so much, rather than 'guessing' no matter how educated the guess is....

more often than not accurate

They are generally more acccurate than ye olde 150 yard marker, and as for some of the non-Strokesaver planners well....

Finally I have never seen anyone use one of these things quickly, maybe I have played with the wrong people.

Maybe you have.....

 

[Deleted member 1147]

The way I look at it is this:

Golf is a game/sport which uses and invests in huge amounts of technology.

You can pay a fortune for the top balls, clubs, bags, trolleys, gloves, tees, GPS etc etc.

But equally, you can pay alot less for non-premium branded gear, or do without the expensive stuff.

Personally I prefer to get the best I can (if it helps). I'm going to have lessons, and look into GPS, and custom fitting for my wedges. This is because I want to play as well as I can.

My eyesight is such that I can't judge distance very well (despite having laser surgery - it's never been good).

Therefore if a Bushnell or GPS will help me play better, and if my club votes to allow them I will get one. I may get one anyway for practice rounds and make alot more notes based on my findings in those practice rounds.

But the main point is - I will use any legal equipment that helps to become a better golfer.

 

[theeaglehunter]

If someone is slow with a GPS they are either new to it, partially blind or a fool

I would push your committee to hold a vote on the matter where all full club members get a vote. If they vote against then you are in the minority and must accept it but until the committee prove that it is in the interest of the membership you should fight your corner (not to the extent that you get on the wrong side of key figures mind!) .

It is a poor excuse you have been given and I am shocked that club wishes to distance itself from the clubs that are moving with the times.

God am I glad my committee (made up predominantly of older people) voted in favour of using them as of march this year. To be fair to them whilst old, they are visionary enough to realise that this is a positive step and in general are very good at running the club

It is just a shame that some committees like yours wish to cause such arguments, I am sure if they did allow GPS use it would be better received by the membership than through rejecting them. Permitting their use at least gives people the choice on whether or not to purchase / use one.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have to say there is nothing like a GPS thread to ge tthe keyboards tapping. I think any committee banning them purely on cost alone is out of touch and will be addressing the matter again within a few years.

To my mind they are a great device and I've argued my reasons on may other threads. However my club doesn't allow them either but I have managed to solve the problem by using a strokesaver from the pro shop and adding in a significant number of measurements on the par 4 and par 5 holes including carry distances from set areas to clear bunkers and ditches as well as yardages to the centre of the green over and above those included in the booklet.

By doing so I have given myself as comprehensive a hole layout as possible utilising the technology available and still playing within the rules. It isn't as exact of getting an instant measurement but at least I can work out club selection with more confidence than without.

My advice would be to monitor groundswell opinion and if there is sufficient interest make a block appeal to the committee and argue that cost alone is not a sufficient answer unless they are going to even the playing field in terms of other equipment

 

[madandra]

Beaker, does your club have a pro and a shop at the course? If so, use them to put pressure on the committee to change the rule as it is costing them revenue from lost sales. If your Pro doesnt stock them then tell him to contact one and get listed as a stockist and THEn put pressure on the old fuddy duddies.

 

[Herbie]

You may mistake my take on gps, it is without doubt a useful tool but where competing is concerned its a no no for me. gps if properly programmed gives you the EXACT distance almost anywhere on the course, does this give the gps user an advantage over someone who doesnt have gps?The answer is obviously YES! Unless that tool is lawfully shared with fellow competitors those without gps would be disadvantaged and it is that fact alone that raises issue with gps. If I went in a comp and didnt have a yardage chart and wasnt allowed to know where 150 was on each hole yet others were allowed this information, would this be fair?...NO! Yardage charts and course markers are part and parcel of club membership, gps is not!
People who play at the highest level will hit those exact distances most of the time, the average golfer will not and perhaps this is the area where the advantage cannot be seen clearly.It doesnt matter what the scores are at the end of the day, the potential is always there and as people clearly buy gps to improve their game and use them and any other aid to reduce their scores it clearly shows that in the minds of many gps makes them better golfers.