Mobile phones as measuring devices

[CMAC]

I find these threads laughable:rofl: not the posters comments but the fact these measurements are barred and were probably never ever used by anyone before they were barred, and still not used!

You could tell me the....
Temperature
wind speed
exact lie and slope angle on a green
exact distance to the cup on the putting green
air pressure
compass direction

...and it would make 'F' all difference in moving a ball with a stick towards a hole

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I find these threads laughable:rofl: not the posters comments but the fact these measurements are barred and were probably never ever used by anyone before they were barred, and still not used!

You could tell me the....
Temperature
wind speed
exact lie and slope angle on a green
exact distance to the cup on the putting green
air pressure
compass direction

...and it would make 'F' all difference in moving a ball with a stick towards a hole

It's surely not the sensors per se - it must be more about protecting the integrity of the game from what clever apps could do integrating live sensor information with player and other information accessible via the internet.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It's surely not the sensors per se - it must be more about protecting the integrity of the game from what clever apps could do integrating live sensor information with player and other information accessible via the internet.

This is exactly what it is. Using the sensors, it wouldn't be too hard to write an app that could, over time, work out your average yardage with each club and suggest which club you used based on the current wind, slope, temperature etc. That is what the rule is trying to protect against.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

This is exactly what it is. Using the sensors, it wouldn't be too hard to write an app that could, over time, work out your average yardage with each club and suggest which club you used based on the current wind, slope, temperature etc. That is what the rule is trying to protect against.

So basically what a good caddie does?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So basically what a good caddie does?

Yes - but would be a lot more precise and specific, and could for instance be telling you in addition to club and sort of swing and shot to play, precisely where to aim for your next shot, taking into account your precise position, air temperature effects on ball flight and distance, wind speed and direction etc etc. and how well you hit that sort of shot in practice - adjusted by how well you are playing today. That's where apps would go.

Note I am only suggesting where golf apps designers would go if information from any sensor you want to have with you when playing could be used - integrating with data you build up from your practicing (all measured by other sorts of sensors) and held on the cloud.

So much more than a caddie. Comparison for caddie vs device? Gary Kasperov vs Deep Blue at chess. Deep Blue won the series.

I'm not giving any opinion on whether this would be good thing or bad - and I am not going to.

 

[Davey247]

What is Gary Kasperov's handicap?? I'm sure I could beat him too.... :fore:

 

[Foxholer]

The rule amendments are out and 1 has caught my eye:

14-3/18
Weather Information Accessed on Multi-Functional Device

This has been the rule that has effectively rendered the mobile phone apps for measurements illegal, however the amendment stats these are now fine as they dont have the functionality for current on the spot wind speed and temp. Accessing local forecasts is fine - probably because anyone can access them prior to being on the course and having the same information.

Here is the quote from the R&A website:

Q.During a stipulated round, may a player access local weather information
(e.g. wind, temperature, humidity) through an application or internet
browser on a multi-functional device?
A. Yes. The prohibition in Rule 14-3 is only applicable to the specific act of
gauging or measuring conditions that might affect a player’s play (e.g. through
use of an anemometer or a thermometer). When accessing weather reports
provided by a weather station through an application or internet browser,
the player is not actively measuring or gauging the conditions.(New)

Is my reading of this correct?? Will this mean apps such as GolfShot will now be legal?

If so what are your thoughts?

Yawn!

No change from anything in the 'hundreds' of other threads on this topic!

Refer the R&A Flowchart!

 

[ger147]

Yes - but would be a lot more precise and specific, and could for instance be telling you in addition to club and sort of swing and shot to play, precisely where to aim for your next shot, taking into account your precise position, air temperature effects on ball flight and distance, wind speed and direction etc etc. and how well you hit that sort of shot in practice - adjusted by how well you are playing today. That's where apps would go.

Note I am only suggesting where golf apps designers would go if information from any sensor you want to have with you when playing could be used - integrating with data you build up from your practicing (all measured by other sorts of sensors) and held on the cloud.

So much more than a caddie. Comparison for caddie vs device? Gary Kasperov vs Deep Blue at chess. Deep Blue won the series.

I'm not giving any opinion on whether this would be good thing or bad - and I am not going to.

Kasparov beat Deep Blue 4-2 in their 1st match, Deep Blue winning the 2nd 3.5-2.5. So overall, Kasparov won 6.5-5.5.

I'd rather have a caddy...

 

[Davey247]

Yawn!

No change from anything in the 'hundreds' of other threads on this topic!

Refer the R&A Flowchart!

I'll run my threads by you next time Foxholer, make sure it up to standards.... :thup:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Kasparov beat Deep Blue 4-2 in their 1st match, Deep Blue winning the 2nd 3.5-2.5. So overall, Kasparov won 6.5-5.5.

...and perhaps what we take from that is that Deep Blue was able to learn by storing precisely what Kasparov did under specific circumstances and the outcomes - then used that in the second series to beat him. Exactly what I think the R&As 'sensor ruling' stuff is all aimed at preventing.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yawn!

No change from anything in the 'hundreds' of other threads on this topic!

Except I have not got on my :sbox: box

...which has to be a relief for everyone

 

[ger147]

...and perhaps what we take from that is that Deep Blue was able to learn by storing precisely what Kasparov did under specific circumstances and the outcomes - then used that in the second series to beat him. Exactly what I think the R&As 'sensor ruling' stuff is all aimed at preventing.

What I took from it was you were wrong.

 

[Sweep]

Yawn!

No change from anything in the 'hundreds' of other threads on this topic!

Refer the R&A Flowchart!

My point exactly. What other game do you need a flowchart to ensure you are complying with the rules.
You have the rules and you have reviews and you have decisions on the rules and much of it, as we have seen here is down to interpretation.

Everything needs simplifying. Either ban them or allow them and let everyone know if they are allowed or not. Simples.
As that is not likely to happen anytime soon, I am off to law school to learn the rules of golf.

 

[MadAdey]

This topic has been thrashed out on here multiple times and I for one do not see a problem in using an iPhone as a DMD. But either make the rules so that only golf specific devices that fall within the rules can be used, or be allowed to use whatever you want. I have tried using all the Gucci things on my phone during a round and it F all difference to be honest. I know when I am on an incline I do not needed my phone to tell me.

 

[rulefan]

The gradient function is possibly of more practical use than a weather app or a compass.

You have a 75 yard pitch to the green which is some distance above (or below) your feet.
The phone tells you if it is x feet above (or below). You know y feet requires one club more (or less).

I know you still have to execute the stroke properly.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What I took from it was you were wrong.

Sorry - not sure what am I wrong about

I'm only suggesting a reason why the R&A are taking the line that they are on sensors - apps designers would go come up with some very smart apps. The R&A don't know the nature of any future apps - and so they don't try and guess and simply mitigate the risk future apps could present to the integrity of the game (as the R&A sees it) - cutting off at source the information.

 

[ger147]

Sorry - not sure what am I wrong about

I'm only suggesting a reason why the R&A are taking the line that they are on sensors - apps designers would go come up with some very smart apps. The R&A don't know the nature of any future apps - and so they don't try and guess and simply mitigate the risk future apps could present to the integrity of the game (as the R&A sees it) - cutting off at source the information.

Gary Kasparov won more points than the machine during their games of Chess.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Gary Kasparov won more points than the machine during their games of Chess.

Ah - OK - though in a matchplay match the total number of stokes over the course of the match doen't actually matter

 

[ger147]

Ah - OK - though in a matchplay match the total number of stokes over the course of the match doen't actually matter

I would suggest you go and look up how Chess scoring works, hopefully before you use Chess again as an example to save you getting it wrong next time.

 

[Foxholer]

I'll run my threads by you next time Foxholer, make sure it up to standards.... :thup:

Better still, check against R&A/USGA sites to see whether anything has actually changed.

That way nobody wastes time! :thup: