Missed ball completely on the green - striking the ball

[fullongolf]

Playing a round of stableford (the competition for the day). A player in my group putted up to the hole. The ball just missed the hole and finished a few inches past the hole. The player then reached over the hole and attempted to tap the ball into the hole with his putter. The putter hit the green and stopped i.e. the putter didn't strike the ball. He then took a normal putting stance and tapped the ball in.

He then said that his score for the hole was 6 i.e. he didn't count the shot where he missed the ball. I said he had to count the missed shot; he said that he didn't count it because the ball didn't move.

In my view attempting that type of shot is indefensible (in this case he didn't even hit the ball but I have seen a lot of players miss "tap-ins" because they didn't give enough attention to the shot.

The only rule I could find that might cover it is Rule 10.1, making a stroke.

Does anyone know if that sort of shot is covered anywhere else?

 

[Imurg]

If he made a stroke at the ball with the intention of hitting it...and didn't.....then it still counts.
One of the Rulers will give you the rule number but it counts as a shot.

 

[YandaB]

You need to have a look at the definition of Stroke:

Stroke: The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball.​

If he did that (and your description mathes it so I would say he did) then it counts as a stroke.

 

[rulefan]

If he made a stroke at the ball with the intention of hitting it...and didn't.....then it still counts.
One of the Rulers will give you the rule number but it counts as a shot.

Extract from the Definition

Stroke
The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball.

But a stroke has not been made if the player:

• Decides during the downswing not to strike the ball and avoids doing so by deliberately stopping the clubhead before it reaches the ball or, if unable to stop, by deliberately missing the ball.

The player’s score for a hole or a round is described as a number of “strokes” or “strokes taken”, which means both all strokes made and any penalty strokes (see Rule 3.1c).

 

[Colin L]

Definitely a stroke as referenced above and a legitimate one. I'm not sure why you see this type of stroke indefensible.. Indavisable, though, if you're so careless about it.

 

[backwoodsman]

As above. Have a look at the definition of a stroke, including the accompanying Interpretation 1. And also the definition of Outside Influence.

He made a stroke.

 

[Orikoru]

Sounds like you were right, it should count as a shot.

He could've got away with it if I had a much better excuse. Like "oh no, I was just addressing the ball and my putter hit the grass" or "I deliberately aborted the swing because there was a wasp".

 

[fullongolf]

I had no doubt it was a stroke, I was hoping it might be addressed in more detail in the rules.

My indefensible comment was more my frustration at seeing all the good work in getting the ball to the green thrown away by a sloppy shot...

 

[Colin L]

As above. Have a look at the definition of a stroke, including the accompanying Interpretation 1. And also the definition of Outside Influence.

He made a stroke.

I'm a bit puzzled. What's the relevance of an outside influence?

 

[salfordlad]

I had no doubt it was a stroke, I was hoping it might be addressed in more detail in the rules.

The definitions are the most fundamental part of the rules - no rule can exist without them - and Interpretation Stroke/1, as noted above, provides the precise guidance that covers this situation. If you get the chance, it could be worth politely showing to the other player.

 

[backwoodsman]

I'm a bit puzzled. What's the relevance of an outside influence?

Interpretation 1 makes reference to the club being stopped by an outside influence - so, in my mind, the definition of Outside Influence is relevant.

(And whilst I'm happy to be corrected, I think that the ground, or the turf, fits in with bullet point 3 of that definition)

 

[rulefan]

Interpretation 1 makes reference to the club being stopped by an outside influence - so, in my mind, the definition of Outside Influence is relevant.

(And whilst I'm happy to be corrected, I think that the ground, or the turf, fits in with bullet point 3 of that definition)

Part of that bullet point refers to natural forces. (The effects of nature such as wind, water or when something happens for no apparent reason because of the effects of gravity).

In this case the reason was very apparent.

 

[fullongolf]

I'm having trouble locating "Interpretation Stroke/1" (salfordlad).

Can someone post a link to that reference? Thanks

 

[salfordlad]

Interpretation 1 makes reference to the club being stopped by an outside influence - so, in my mind, the definition of Outside Influence is relevant.

(And whilst I'm happy to be corrected, I think that the ground, or the turf, fits in with bullet point 3 of that definition)

Agree, bullet point three of the outside influence definition includes natural object, ie the ground referred to in the OP.

 

[salfordlad]

I'm having trouble locating "Interpretation Stroke/1" (salfordlad).

Can someone post a link to that reference? Thanks

https://www.randa.org/rog/definitions
Go to Stroke and it is under that definition.

 

[Neilds]

If you can class the ground as an outside influence, can I ask to replay every shot I hit fat? Would take a long time to get round though!

 

[backwoodsman]

If you can class the ground as an outside influence, can I ask to replay every shot I hit fat? Would take a long time to get round though!

Doubt it.

If you hit it fat, you've made a stroke - the fact you hit the ground (ie outside influence) in the process doesn't stop it being a stroke - just makes it a pretty crap stroke.

 

[rulefan]

I'm having trouble locating "Interpretation Stroke/1" (salfordlad).

Can someone post a link to that reference? Thanks

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/h...type=interp&section=definitions&subrulenum=20

Stroke/1 – Determining If a Stroke Was Made
If a player starts the downswing with a club intending to strike the ball, his or her action counts as a stroke when:

• The clubhead is deflected or stopped by an outside influence (such as the branch of a tree) whether or not the ball is struck.

 

[RRidges]

Extract from the Definition

Stroke
The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball.

But a stroke has not been made if the player:

• Decides during the downswing not to strike the ball and avoids doing so by deliberately stopping the clubhead before it reaches the ball or, if unable to stop, by deliberately missing the ball.

The player’s score for a hole or a round is described as a number of “strokes” or “strokes taken”, which means both all strokes made and any penalty strokes (see Rule 3.1c).

Given his attitude, wouldn't he make the counter argument that it wasn't a stroke - because it was a backward movement of the club?

 

[rulefan]

In the words of Vera Lynn I vaguely remember the R&A saying that 'forward' meant towards the ball.

Edit:
But the outcome to 14-1/1 hasn't changed. Now irrelevant